Don’t know if you guys know, but you can charge mad dozers last punch aswell as Diamond Reamer.
I am trying Jack on point Kaz on Anchor, Kazuya is just a much better Anchor then Jack is, Jack can play zoning with pokes, AA with uppercut then finish with shoulder to make them go fullscreen and let them come to you again.
Rather than explain everything piece by piece I am going to post my general Pros and Cons and if you have a question please ask. A lot of his pros and cons are self explanatory.
Jack-X
Pros
+High Health (1200)
+Superior Zoning Game (Suprise Attack is a low that hits twice and is safe on block)
+Superior Anti Air Game (AAA has Armor and very long reach)
+Strong Run Away game(Flight mode[which has super armor], Charge Attack[which has super armor], High Jump)
+Good Counter Zoning Options (Charge Attack, Surprise Attack)
+Strong Switch cancel moves (Anti Air Attack, Seismo)
+Fast, High damaging Super (3 Frames and is almost full screen)
+Good low jab which has a feint fierce build in
+High Damage Output
+Strong Point Character
+Strong Combo Partner
+Build Meter very well
Cons
-Although his damage output is high, his combo potential is only off of Switch Cancels and Launchers
-Hard to use
-Poor Wake Up Options
-High mobility characters give him trouble
-Characters with strong oki give him trouble
-Special Moves do not auto correct properly
-Even though he has a good poke (Crouch Jab) it is very slow.
-Overall (with jab into consideration) Poor pokes.
-Poor Footsie Game
-Very Slow with subpar dashes
-Situational Cross Up
How did u find 3 frames for the super ? I found 7 frames.
I tested the super myself, and it does seem to have 7 frame startup yes.
Good writeup! I think most of these are spot on, but there are a couple that I need to disagree with.
I’ve found that while this is technically true, it’s almost irrelevant because of Gigaton Punch (qcf + p). Once you’ve properly discouraged your opponent from jumping, Gigaton punch defeats any footsie attempts by pulling Jack’s hitbox back and knocking them back to full screen. . I’m able to outfootsie a Sakura player who, I’m not ashamed to say, is much better at footsies than I am.
As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve found Jack’s j.mp to be a great air to air. It has a great horizontal hitbox, a lot of active frames, and it always knocks down, allowing the followup combo.
Drew, nice idea on c.LP, s.MP, c.HP. I just started using s.MP, c.HP and didn’t even think if using it off the jab. Up close you can use c.LP, close MP > MP >MP >HP as well, or c.LP,MP > MP,HP,launcher. c.LP xx L upper, or Seismo works too at point blank. c.LP > HP isn’t safe, it’s punishable by quick pokes at close range, and at further range there are some supers that can punish it.
Fly (Jump~U) is good for runaway.
He has a hard time dealing with up close pressure, and stuff like jabs/crouch jabs into crossup are tough for him. I’ve been trying to use HCF+K or fly to get out of the situation.
So the name of the game with him is patience, keep them out, react with uppers for AA and seismo on the ground. Tag cancel whenever you get a hit.
Jack’s super is 7 frames, I couldn’t punish Ryu’s Heavy Donkey kick which is -6.
I agree with using Swing Punch footsies HOWEVER a lot of characters can actually punish it on reaction. Ryu, for example, can just DP it on reaction and it will counter hit. Using Swing Punch seems to be from a character to character basis. ALSO keep in mind people can Super and Level 3 (in some cases) on reaction. So if you have a lead and your opponant is scared to jump I would NEVER used this move and just sit on my life lead, but thats footsies 101 right there so that might be a bad example.
Keep in mind that Jab is special cancallable. A cute little frame trap is cr.Jab (Or high jab against larger characters) xx l.seismo. At max range it gives characters a lot of trouble and in most situations the only punish I have seen people do are body invinvable moves (has to be low though) and alpha counters due to poor spacing. If you space it right, most alphas counter will counter. Keep in mind MOST. Its only day 3 or 4 for me since I got banned on XBL for a day so Im still yet to test a lot of things. But yeah, Jab xx l.seismo is very good.
My counter argument with Jacks Air to Airs is that you really should not be needed to use them anyway. I like jump strong a lot but characters with faster air to air out beat and since his jump arc (even on super jump) is very suspect its almost best to not rely on air to airs for anything; this is just my opinion.
Actuallly. I wish (not to sound cocky) YogaFlame or someone caught on the my replays on XBL because the only who has been playing Jack X at anything beyond a Day1 level. Theres a lot of good stuff I have been doing that I think would benefit you guys.
I never switch cancel (or rarely rather) into my Hugo unless I know the AAA or Seismo on hit will kill the character.
More often than not I can get 2 Supers in one round due to his really solid meter gain (and because he does not rely meter to do things) so IN situations where Jack is low on life; Ill just cross assualt because, like I said before, if you have a partner that is really hard to approach, you can just CA, sacrafice some of your partners life and youll still be winning because now their healths are even. I also like using Cross Assault when I smell blood in situations where they have to Tag or they will lose. So I will siesmo, start dashing in and just up close Cross Assualt, That way it gets jack out of a situation he does not want to be in (up close) and because I play Hugo, having two giant giants in your face is hard to deal with whoever their character is.
I certainly agree that’s the usefulness of Gigaton Punch varies with the character you are facing, but I don’t see things like on-reaction dps being too much of an issue. I’ve found that Gigaton Punch is most useful when you use it like Ryu uses his fireball in sfxt. Sometimes you let it go for chip and pushback, sometimes you dash cancel it to bait a response. If my opponent is throwing out things like dps on reaction to the startup of Gigaton Punch, I have no problem with that.
I also use Jack a little differently than you with regard to tag cancels, but I certainly see the benefit of the approach you are taking. I’ve paired him with Heihachi, so getting 400+ damage and a Heihachi mixup off things like a full screen seismo is definitely worth 1 bar for my team. Either way, I’m interested to see what kind of gameplay emerges as Jack X is developed further.
eDane and me did some lab work with Jack and Hugo cross assault, and we ended up with a 1074 damage combo (With gems):
Hugo: Splash xx Cross Assault->ex lariat-----> dash-> j.splash-------------> super
Jack:: ---------------------------------Jump HK-> Jump HP ->lp. DP-> ex gigaton punch
If that is understandable: I spaced the written moves to show where in the combo the moves connected
His jumping HK seems to very active for a long time and it has quite the priority when it’s active. I’m gonna explore that for his oki.
For now I just use Jack as a great combo-ender anchor.
So simsim, do you think that jack beats/can fight dhalsim? I’m looking a partner for gief that beats dhalsim and does damage after gief does launcher.
Where can I find good jack footage?
Yeah I like that stuff edane. Jack has nice tricks with switch cancels for characters with up close 50/50s. Tue think I like about jack a lot is that he gives characters really good synergy. He reminds me kind of like Dr.Doom in that sense where he just fits in a team. He works on point, works as a partner. And outside of everything else, that lies his strength. Too bad people thinks that he’s ass.
The archive with myself and Arturo Sanchez is the only footage of someone playing jack over an extended period. That was me on day 1 however a lot of useful stuff is there. I also have videos on my YouTube testing out jacks stiff. Combos etc. Not to tot my own horn but TOT TOT
Someone should make a thread with a better name than this.
Nah " Jack is Ass" is too good people never read past the first page. People will go "oh ok he sucks I wont play him. Keeps the retards out.
His j.rh can trade with Lili’s Andante, and that is saying a lot. Up until then noone could jump in on her.
So far the best combo I’ve seen is LP upper, s.LP, s.LP, c.MP xx shoulder or upper. You can use LK shoulder to land them right at HP seismo range, if they quickrise they have to backdash or block a fast HP seismo. I think some characters with faster prejump frames can jump out. If they roll forward they end up right at the tip of your c.LP range at frame disadvantage. You can also use MK shoulder to put them right at MP seismo range for the same scenario above, but this time you can wait for them to jump forward and use MP/HP upper.
Speaking of which, what strength upper do you guys use for AA? MP is decent to put them back at the jump seismo or stay grounded. But HP nets you a LK shoulder, which is AFAIK the best damage and HP seismo range knockback. Aside from a slightly slower started up cooldown, HP seems to be much better suited for AA in that it hits a little further up and out, as well as granting a better followup.
Thoughts?
After HK shoulder combos , u can do meaty HK shoulder , its -3(working on a better setup with more advantage) , probably only ryu ken gouki(only lp , mp dp) can punish on block , BUT the thing is it has armor until it hits , so if the opponent tries to reversal , it will lose to the meaty charge attack.
Stuff like this is usefull. Hope you find even more/better set ups. Seismo setups would also be very useful: meaty seismo set ups that catches people holding up! So far I only have seismo dash seismo as a good setup!