Man, I had no interest in using Jack but after seeing Alex Valle play him just now, I think he will be the DLC character I will have the most potential to use. At least, if I am right in thinking he be a zoner that hits Ridiculously Hard, I always wanted that.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2
F,d,df hp is invincible. So that can deal with rush down, but not safe on block.
I was really excited to play Jack in SFxT but he seems kinda lackluster. He seems to play a pretty good keepout/zoning game, but on the inside he has a lot of problems, and a lot of weaknesses in general for not having a real strength aside from damage and range. His size makes him easier to cross up, and some attacks that most other characters can duck (such as Jack’s own s.LP and s.MK) Jack gets hit by when crouching.
As far as buttons. s.LP can be ducked, as can s.MK, making both of them very risky right off the bat. So up close he has c.LP and that’s about it, his c.LP is decent because it has a lot of reach, but he can’t do much with it. His best options off of it are to cancel it into LP upper or LP seismo, both of which whiff if not close enough. Everything else is either interruptable or unsafe on block.
Cossack kicks are ass. If all the lows hit it does about 80 damage, which is about 50 damage less than just doing a c.LK,c.MK magic series. The mid gives a comboable crumple stun, but you can interrupt the mid with fast pokes.
Close MP MP MP HP string is alright. Pretty easy to hit confirm, and you can combo it off of c.LP up close, and do MP MP HP Launch. Main issue is that you have to be pretty close. Sometimes you’ll get far MP MP which still combos and is safe on block. Far MP is pretty good by itself in footsies, at max range the 2nd hit will whiff a lot. c.MP has really good range, is low and is cancelable.
HP and HK both have range, HP especially. But both are slow and punishable on block by fast supers.
Throw range is awful.
Jumping attacks are kind of meh. j.HP has a decent forward hitbox. I wish j.HK has a slightly better hitbox for crossups. So far I haven’t found a consistent range/setup for crossups. His other air attacks don’t seem that useful
MP[MP] and MK,MP,[MP] are gimmicks.
F+LK overhead is pretty ass. Especially comingfrom Heihachi who has a relatively fast overhead that gives a full combo on normal hit and crushes all standing attacks. Really? They couldn’t give Jack even one of those properties?
QCF+P seems pretty useless. It has decent range and is isn’t exactly fast, and doesn’t have any sort of armor. It has decent pushback making it hard for some characters to punish, but it is fairly punishable. Bryan and another Jack can both punish it with supers. EX version is AFAIK just a slightly faster version. Plus as a charge up move you can only release the punch in between arm swings. You can dash cancel at any time but the restriction on attacking makes the dash cancel predictable in most cases.
Mash P is pretty much the same thing. Gets interrupted when you cancel into it, and punishable, but with pushback.
HCF+K is ok. HCF+HK is noteworthy because it has armor, but the armor seems to activate after a lengthy startup. I’ve been using it to escape the corner and get out of crossup situations. Other than that it’s decent for hitting people out of projectiles or distanced attacks.
Seismo is alright, at least it’s safe on block. If you hit someone with a seismo, then do another one with a higher button (L to M, M to H) and they quick getup they get up right into it. If they don’t you recover in time to defend or set something else up.
Rocket upper is probably his best move. LP is safe on block, useful for combos. MP and HP have invincibility, and are his best AAs.
Flight is interesting. I’ve been messing with it some for runaway, seems to be much more useful that way than trying to go in with it.
Super is good. Only 310 damage but it does 19 hits so it doesn’t scale too bad. Just shy of full screen range and it’s fast (like maybe 3 frames) so you can punish a lot of stuff with this.
So basically, most of my matches have become me trying to keep people out with seismo and M and H uppers for AA. Which he does decently at. But then I’m having a tough time once someone gets through. Mostly waiting for breaks in their string and trying to c.LP xx LP upper or jump back with flight. He seems better in the 2nd slot when he can have another character get in and tag to him for damage, then play some keep out to recover his partners health.
Anyone know the frames on c.LP? Or anything else for that matter?
I wish I had seen this last night. Do you have any recollection of his game plan with Jack?
We could use some frame data. I noticed that the hitbox on his neutral jump HK is very low and that this move looks like it has less lag than many/most of his ground normals. This might be a viable option for when the opponent gets close.
Jack definitely needs some kind of team strategy - maybe where you use his range to get some damage in and then cross cancel when it turns ugly.
Jack X is a really good zoner but you have to be smart with your zoning (like all fireball characters) He has good potential as a tag partner too and getting him out is pretty easy too. Hes a good character but hes very hard to play
He has a very hard time dealing with Mishima characters because of their wavedash. Telaport characters are a hair annoying too but are manageable.In situations where you cant seismo he has moves taht are useful but you have to be smart because since his upclose defense is really poor you have to keep them at mid range whole round if you can do that he is a realy bitch
His wakeup is suspect too… you really ned to have good defense to play him well. An unsafe defensive option can put you in a situation that is very troublesome
Yeah, people with teleports are annoying so far. When dealing with the Mishimas I just use hcf.hk on reaction. I was watching Valle play and he kept playing footsies with Jack lol and it was actually working. He kept doing cr.lp>st.hp and it looked pretty damn safe.
Yeah, Low Jab into fierce is good when siemos can be punished. I use it a lot more now I love it.
His up close game is really bad so your zoning game has to be on point
I’ve been using him for about 2 days now and it’s really hard to use him. right now I’m stealing wins because people are unfamiliar with him but man am I having a tough time. His overhead is pretty abysmal which makes opening people up tough as nails. Also, once someone gets in your face and starts rushing you down it’s hard to get out. I just got double perfected by a rush-down raven and it was not pretty. His redeeming qualities are his range, his damage, and his seismo…but at what cost?
Y
You need a 2nd character that can deal with Rushddown. The best thing you can do sometimes (atleast what ive been doing) is mid game If i ran a train through two character I just switch cancel in my Hugo. That way Jack can build up some life and since Hugo is really hard to approch it wastes some time too. Jack on point is more of a damage dealer and time waster. Once hes done his purpose (about 30 seconds in game) hes pretty much done his job.
Jack is not a meter hungry character so you can use that to your advantage in character selection.
This is totally whats happening with me, I’m having a tough time too. Jack at the moment for me is winning through his invincible DP, and that’s about it. Once I tag Jack through a launcher, I’m just not ready or prepared enough with him to start any kind of mix-up, it’s like whaaa what do I do. The DP is really good though but you have to be careful because eventually people will start baiting it. I find it best to use after I block a cross up or a jump in. Almost always do it when I have meter, because it gives you a little extra frame advantage too if the opponent blocks it.
His normals are amazing though, I mean if you can get into a mid range footsie game, he’s a class act. Problem is, starting a midrange footsie game, people will just wanna jump at you, and let’s be honest his DP is his only reliable AA. MK is ok from the right range, but your reactions need to be on point with the DP. With footsies though I’m loving st.mp > cr.hp, you can confirm this on hit into a tag cancel to your partner for really good damage. The overhead I feel is really just for conditioning people though on hit you should be able to do an uninterrupted light attack but I would need…
FRAME DATAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
pls.
I tried to get some Jack x Dhalsim synergy going the other day, and there is one special situation I am looking for:
I want a combo with Jack, that ends in a tag cancel where dhalsim comes in and can interupt his run with fireball (Because Jack is far away from the knocked down opponent), and be able to cross up teleport before the opponent is able to roll forward. This situation would give Dhalsim a real fireball teleport cross up mixup.
The closest I got to this was:
J.Hp>st.Hp xx lp dp>lp dp>lp “hundred handslaps” xx tag cancel (As fast as possible)>run cancel fireball>instant air teleport>j.mk etc.
This was not very reliable though, since the timing is really strict! Any ideas? I know that a ground seismo from half/full screen away xx tag cancel into run cancel fireball works well, because I get both hits on the seismo, that leaves enough time to what I want, but I can’t seem to combo into this:P What are you doing Joe Lewis, when you connect a seismo after anti airing with mp dp? Does that only work on counterhit?
Hey SimSIm, watch the archives with Arturo and I I think you would like what we were doing.
I have been watching a lot of it:) Getting ideas from it too, so good stuff! But I see you land anti air mp dp into seismo even without counterhit on the anti air, and when I had lab time and tried this, I didnt get it to work. You are doing anti air mp dp into mp seismo? or hp seismo maybe?
After playing with Jack since day 1 all I can think is why does this robot not have a command grab:(
Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2
Haha, I was playing my buddy earlier today and I kept saying the same thing over and over again. I feel it would really help him open people up, and make them regret blocking with impunity.
I’ve been incorporating instant overhead j.hk and that shit is GAWT-LIKE.
Oh, yeah. If you hit them at the top of their jump arc you get a seismo for free. You have to look for it though. If they pop up REALLY high you can seismo but you have to wait to see where they land. If youre not sure dont do it because if they tech roll forward youre screwed.
NOTE:
This is only day 4 of me playing JACK-X but after long agonizing hours of playing with him and losing so many points on PSN just trying to prove my theories (which I gained back with him by the way). So my thoughts may change through this post. And please guys hit me up and correct me on anything if I’m wrong. And I’m aware that some of these things have been addressed already but I want just one set post to establish anything that needs to be known about JACK-X.
OPINION:
Just like the Law forums, I only see nothing but complaints about the character and rarely any good things to say. The name of this forum proves it. I think this post will help out a lot and if you just scroll right past it then too bad.
INTRO:
Yes Jack-X is not as ideal as people hoped for him to be. People would argue, “There should be invincibility in his moves!” or “His normals and specials are too slow!” or “He has no mobility at all!” or “Why doesn’t he have a command grab?” etc.
Well guys, unless there’s a patch for this character (which I highly doubt there being any good ones) all I can say is deal with it. Within the rough, you find a REALLY scary character.
“How the hell is he not ass then J/P?”
Shut up and don’t speak until you’re spoken to imaginary kid in the audience who doesn’t know how to contribute to the character forums correctly. Lemme focus on some of the more obvious things about him. The negatives.
TIME TO LEARN:
“What are JACK-X’s weaknesses?”
“How do I use him then?”
First of all, Jack was never meant to be this high end robot that can run swiftly though a field frolicking through the flowers doing air dashes like magneto’s pixie looking ass.
He doesn’t have a lot of good tools to get characters off of him so you’re going to have to learn how to block. But if you’re looking for a good get-off-me move, then MP Anti-Air Attack is really good for breaking through untrue block strings and people trying to rush you down.
“How should I use my offense with him?”
As for offense your ideal range is 1/3 to 1/2 of the screen away from your opponent. That’s where all your normals and specials work best. And if they try to jump in on you, just DP or do J. MP. to keep them out. Also, low jab into stand fierce is a target combo, that’s also your best friend. Use it at max range to avoid getting out poked.
“Anything else about how I should play him?”
If anything, he’s soley meant to be an anchor player with a really good point character.
Just be very ballsy with him and your reactions are gonna have to be on point with him. Also have him as anchor. Switch cancelling into his dp’s do godlike damage.
Also J. RH acts as a really good instant overhead for oki.
"Anything notable about his normals?"
Everything except for Far MP, Far HP, Cr. HP, Cr. HK, and Cr. HK are special cancelable.
Far HP is kara cancelable into any special move (Seems pretty usless though)
Low LK has a really far range (about 1/3 of the screen).
Low LP can be used at 1/2 screen.
“What about his specials?”
All of his specials (except for Rocket Uppercut) have do the same damage.
Piston Gun (mash P):
You can do jab hands with this move. But there’s no point of it unless you want to use it’s wall bounce to get a good combo out of it. But it does damage reduction like crazy that it limits all of your potential damage. It’s even punishable on block.
Megaton Earthquake (Back DP+P):
Equivalent to Viper’s seismos. Can switch cancel out of them. Can’t cancel them like Viper. Not too slow but not to fast either. No start up invincibility even in EX. Good zoning tool. If your opponent jumps it can be somewhat used as a trip guard. Safe on block.
Rocket Uppercut (DP+P):
All have fast start up but have a specific range. LP is the only one that’s safe. MP version is a good get-off-me to stop block strings. MP and HP versions are good for instant anti airs. You can easily get crossed up if you miss. You can combo into a second or third DP one after LP one (depending on how much you hit stun you’ve cause already).
Atomic Shoulder Tackle (HCF+K):
Slow start up. HP is the only one with 1 hit invincibility but doesn’t come up until you’re in active frames. HP version is really good at getting out of the corner and hits full screen. Each version has their own distance. All do the same amount of damage.
Gigaton Punch (QCF+P):
Slow start up. No invincibility even on EX. Punishable except for EX. Somewhat good for zoning. Normal cancelable but not a true block string after using a jab or short. All versions do the same amount of damage. Knocks back full screen. Reaches about half screen.
All of Jack’s specials are pretty weak but you can always find ways to use them to your advantage and have it lead to a dead character in no time. But again the ideal place for him is to be in the back causing damage after an exchange or switch cancel. And after the first couple of good reads you make with JACK-X you’ve scared your opponent. Also again be careful with opponents jumping in. Be familiar with all your anti airs and what range you can do them in.
“Doesn’t JACK-X have any unique attacks that can make up for sucky special attacks?”
No. He doesn’t have unique attacks that can help compensate for what he’s lacking in. Except for one worth noting.
Megaton Strike (Cr. Jab, St. Fierce):
This is his best footsie tool and it’s safe. It reaches at 1/2 scree. Does 170 for no reason. Hit 10 of these and you win because people are dumb enough to try to punish it with a dumb normal. Be careful to not press st. fierce to fast though because the cr. jab will be kara canceled into the st. fierce. (weird I know, and I don’t know if it make the stand fierce come out faster than a regular st. fierce.)
As for his second best unique attack,
Machine Gun Blast (Close Strong x4, Fierce):
This one looks pretty safe but you can’t really hit confirm into anything since the move just brings you so far out that you can cancel st. fierce into a special move. But it does 235 damage, which is pretty decent for a unique attack series.
Granite Stomping (Toward+Short):
Good for oki, terrible for mixups unless you have your opponent completely frozen. Goes over low kick attacks at a certain distance and can be used as a whiff punish. Safe on block. That’s it.
As for the useless shit. Do I really need to say anything about them? Sigh might as well just in case you innovators can find some use to them.
Giant Foot Stomp (Press Up while in the Air):
Do I really need to say anythi… nevermind. You can go either really high up, or across the screen at a really slow pace with this. Good for runaway because you have 1 hit of invincibility on it. Not so safe when you land though.
Pancake Press (Press Down while in Giant Foot Stomp):
No invicibility. No EX version. Not safe. You can EASILY get hit out of it.
Diamond Reamer (Far Strong, Strong):
Why would this move be useless, because it’s too slow and the second won’t even reach at the first hit’s max range.
Crossack Kicks ((Low Short, Low Forward)x3)
Doesn’t even combo.
Conclusion:
So there you have it. Be prepared to be frustrated if you try to stick with JACK-X. He’s not a total loss. But he’s not one of the best either. He has a really good damage output but he’s not Hugo or Gief.
He still has really good zoning tools that need to be done well with a good read. You have to play solid with him and find little ways to make your opponent lean your way so you can hit them with some frame trap (yes he has some of those).
But don’t expect to stay in that ass the whole round or else the moment is going to swing rapidly out of your favor. So make sure you have a good point character to cover your beloved giant fluffy robot or else you’re going to get bodied using this guy unless you make some pretty godlike reads.
Again, I’m not some god or doctor at this game. I’m just trying to put stuff out there that players can feed on and see what they can do with it. I know that UltraDavid is looking into JACK-X and I’d like for him to see what he thinks of this character as well. And Joe, I know that you’re interested and have good things to share after playing with Arturo so thanks.
Basically, I’m playing him as a very high damage zoning and setup character in Jack/Gief. Imo top 5 best things in the game is the fact that seismo into switch cancel is comboable on hit and safe on block from everywhere. When I’m at any of the seismo ranges, don’t do anything I can react to and hope that you don’t get predictable with things, because in either case my seismo switch cancel into Zangief on hit is like 400 damage into option select green hand to follow your stand/roll mixup and on block results in Zangief in your face. His antiair dp is like 1/3 screen range into significant damage, 500+ if I want to switch cancel back into Zangief. I like Jack’s footsie normals at mid range too. And if I’m Gief, as I’m walking around looking for either buffer into ex hand or boost chain into launcher, I have this crazy good set of normals that turn into Jack into 350-400 on boost chain or 600 on ex hand combo into switch cancel.
I talked with Alioune online, he’s playing Jack/Lili. He said he thinks flight is good. I haven’t really started using it yet, but I’ll definitely look into it too.
You guys are right, he’s not great at opening people up when he’s close, and unfortunately he doesn’t really have the mobility to easily back out to a range he’s more comfortable at. But I guess that’s what having Zangief around is good for. If I need to, I guess I can hundred hands switch cancel out to Gief? I dunno, this hasn’t actually come up that much yet, my opponents haven’t really gotten in against my Jack very often.
It is such an awesome feeling having a big ass dude that hits like a truck and people don’t want to run away from you! Currently on a 20 fight win streak with Jack/Hugo. Jack burns soooo much of the clock because people are so careful trying to get in on him that by the time I tag in Hugo the timer is running low and I have so much health. If I get pressured I usually just use the hp.dp since it has some invincibility and tag. I’m still getting used to using his fly to get away and create some space but its been hit and miss.
Oh and I’m rolling Mango Sent colors on Jack and Hulk colors on Hugo, which might be why I’m doing well so far.
Some more stuffs:
So I found you can tag cancel off of Jacks overhead on Counter-hit. Yep, I know, only on counter hit. >_<. I found a nifty way to set this up though, after a launch you can come in with Jack and do st.mp > charge. Providing the opponent is holding downback, this gives you enough time to setup the overhead or play double mindgames and just go for the low.
Cr.lp is really really good. Now I know a lot of people have been raving about cr.lp > st.hp. But there’s more you can do with it, you can do far range cr.lp > st.mp > cr.hp! This gives you a confirmable combo into a tag cancel for really good damage. This is amazing because it works from almost max range. A little closer and you can also go for cr.lp > st.mp > sweep for the hard knockdown.
For tag cancels HP dp is really the safest option on block, because it gives you a little frame advantage. For setups though, you have to go with seismo. Seismo gives you good time to setup a mixup on the opponent, and obviously really easy to confirm into a combo on hit. The machine gun (mash move) also gives you a little frame advantage too, but the EX one lasts the full length and gives you ages to set something up! If you wanna be nasty and have 2 bars you can pin down the opponent with the EX version.
Uh also I just found this out but the shortcuts in this game are even more lenient that in sf4. For DP you can just do down forward > down forward x P for a DP motion!? WHAAAA??