I was messing with this the other day (just tested it now to make sure). Testing it just off knees bees trees j.HK tag for simplicity. Off that, I did cr.MK xx MP Rising Uppercut, cl.HP xx MP Dragon Uppercut for 432 damage. Might be able to squeeze something more out of it (supers, cross arts, etc) but that’s pretty solid. Might have to change the first Rising Uppercut based on the distance, as with other juggle combos.
I’m assuming this isn’t new, and I haven’t read all of the posts in the thread because for me, raw notations = picture related. I’ll try my best.
Anyway. I use this for confirming when I can’t tell which side I will be on because that’s how good his jumping normals are; J.HK(Can be replaced or mixed/matched with J.MK or J.MP crossup online because of lag), s.MP(Sometimes if you do s.HP it’ll push you too far away), xx qcf LP, b + lp, M(groundbounce) and then from here you do your DP loop or whatever the heck you want. the Dragon’s breath is obviously the most important part. It gives you enough time for the groundbounce chain, you can sweep right after, do whatever the heck you want. His Dragon’s breath is probably the meat of any swag combo. Just enough advantage to combo into anything under the sun. If they block the Dragon’s breath, you have frame advantage and are roughly in range to do whatever you want, I like to use his Hammer Fist because that attack is just ridiculous.
tldr;
Confirm: J.(Ambiguous crossup attack), S.MP xx QCF+LP
(Please experiment with the MP as I have not. Maybe something to replace it with, I don’t know)
Combo: Roll face across pad/stick.
And one question, are there any practical uses you have found for most of his other chains? Most of the discussion is centering around his DP loop(and for good reason, it does the most damage) and many of the long and swaggish combos do low damage.
^I am so stealing that. I never even looked at the frame data on Hell Breath. As for chains I like his f.lp>lp even though it does little damage (and isn’t worth it for scaling I am sure) because it gives a ton of time to start the RU series; eventually I will omit it from the combo but for now it is like extra confirm time to get that meter
I hope this all gets cleaned up in here at some point. We should really be trying to compile a few different types of combos and their confirms, like:
(these aren’t optimal at all, but just examples of the many many ways Heihachi has to start combos)
B + lp, c.lp…(confirm combo)
B + lk (opponent crouching), c.lp…(confirm combo)
B + lk (opponent standing), s.hp xx mp.RU, s.hp xx DU
F + mp, f.lp>lp or mp (continue)
Counter, c.mp xx lp.RU, s.hp xx DU
Chrome Dome, c.mp xx RU, s.hp xx DU
I have been using Heihachi on point so every option I am looking at is meterless at this point…
Can anybody tell me how to use his counter move? I see people do it all the time online, in between blocks. But when I do it it always goes wrong!
What button should I use lk, mk or hk. When should I use it?
Yeah me too, I haven’t even bothered looking for good ways to use meter other than just replacing the end uppercut with a super/cross art. I really wanted to find a use for Hell Axle in a combo but it doesn’t seem too great. Looks awesome though. EX Rising Uppercut is insanely fast so I could definitely see someone using that against fireballs or what have you.
And there’s the frame data. Breath is a whopping +13 on hit and +2 on block.
Also, I know it’s not really combo related but GOD DAMN HAMMER PUNCH IS SO STUPID.
It is;
-1 on block
+6 on hit
Hits mid
If it’s a counter-hit, THEY SLIP. IT’S NOW +22.
It crushes standing normals like launchers crush crouching normals
And it knocks down airborne opponents.
hammer fist so sexy. People are going to hate Heihachi.
@Zombiepatrol I am using Hell Axle exclusively as an OS on jump ins to beat backdash. Works nicely.
@Donfloris- You can use it to beat frame traps, so if you notice someone using one you recognize you can blow it up. Or you can use it raw on a read (to catch a poke). If I see someone using the same blockstring over and over I will test the gaps to see if it is a true blockstring or if there are gaps. If there are gaps and you are quick on the buffered hcf you will beat the subsequent attack. . Just a few ways to start working it in. 1f so sick.
Wouldn’t Uppercut be a better OS to beat back-dash?
As it floats the opponent and you can then continue to juggle for extra damage.
Possibly, I didn’t even try it yet; I just started using Hell Axle at a session on Saturday and stuck with it.
Thanks for the feedback, so can you mash it out then just like a DP or do you really have to time it? Is there any difference between the buttons, I tried it out in the training area and it seems like it depends on what kind of attack your opponent does instead of what button I press (meaning the ground bounce or kick away cinematics)?
I’ve been wracking my brain trying to figure out a use for this damn move in a combo, and I’ve yet to find one other than “for style”. If you’re playing against someone with a low fireball, clearly you can use that to get a hit in (where a low fireball will stop EX Rising Upper) but then what? You cannot combo after it as far as I know, and it doesn’t provide great juggle time for tags either. I’m just not sure where the move fits in to be perfectly honest.
I’ve been using cr. lk x qcf+lp as a way to hit confirm my combos lately, as it goes directly into f+lp > st. mp for full combo. If they block, you’re at +2 after the light demon breath, and on hit you’re at +13 (!) leaving you awfully positive to confirm into f+lp > st. mp.
The only downside is the range on demon breath, and the pushback it generates. The f+lp doesn’t even look like it’s going to hit your opponent, which is kinda weird. I usually do these hit confirms after a jump in/cross up scenario.
Also, I’m at work right now so I can’t test this, but if you feel that an on-hit lp demon breath has pushed your opponent back too far for f+lp to hit, you should be able to go for a reset with f+mp immediately after. On-hit lp demon breath is +13, and f+mp has 15 frames of startup, leaving 2 frames for their mashed jab to get counter hit, correct?
Yeah for both of those. I didn’t even think about no lower body invinc for rising upper, thanks. And definitely on the 2nd. I wtf’d for a good 5 minutes after figuring out that it hits like that, even from that far. I wouldn’t doubt it would whiff 100% on some characters. It’s enough of an advantage on hit for breath that you can do whatever you want otherwise. I wouldn’t doubt you could do one of his tekken strings or just low forward if it would whiff or something. I’m not really good a theorycrafting but I’ll go into the lab with him in a minute.
Okay, this is the setup I was talking about. Looks like it does work:
[media=youtube]_O1jtCx2vKE[/media]
You can’t really mash it like a DP, it is more like a Gief SPD or reversal Guile Flash Kick in SF4 where you are challenging specific gaps but the input takes more time. With DP you could just wiggle from df to d while in blockstun and rub your face all over the buttons and a reversal shoryu would plop out. Also shouldn’t really mash in general; sure it can and will work (actually in SF4 there were instances where it would be wrong NOT to mash). More the mentality should be—and I am still working on this— doing the right thing at the right moment.
Honestly, it is a complete risk to even challenge, but the reward is pretty sizable for a good read or a yomi moment. It does work great against frame traps, and more of these will show up in time as people develop the tech.
It is a lot like Julia, when she has 2 bars you just can’t do a lot of stuff because of threat of raw punish. Likewise as Heihachi’s counter game develops it feels like a lot of pressure will be weighed against the risk of full combo for a setup.
Er… you know you can combo after demon breath with a S.lk or C.mk?
If you take the S.lk option: You could chain S.lk, S.mp, S.hp … launcher/ex-uppercut.
If you C.mk: Raijin + mp … or… ex-uppercut.
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Hell axle is rather useless.
If it hit crouching opponents… it would be atleast useful for a good way to tag Hei out. As for now… it’s kind of “derp”
Yes, but a max range light demon breath pushes your opponent too far away on hit to follow up with cr. mk or st. lk. The point of the video is to show a possible option for counter hit reset in that scenario. The game is a week old, it’s all brainstorming at this point.
Can someone correct me if I’m reading the frame data wrong: I can’t see how you have time for Hammer Punch after a blocked LP Demon’s Breath. LP DB leaves you +2 on block, but Hammer Punch has a 18 frame startup. Doesn’t your opponent have 16 frames to hit you? Also how does “b + lp, M” give you ground bounce as you stated? I thought this was achieved via Muso Tettsuif (f+LP, MP).
Cheers for any clarification.
It’s a typo. It should be F+lp, mp.
Again thanks for the feedback.
I don’t like to mash even in SFIV, I think its disrespectful and I like to win on skill not luck. Good players will bait it out and then your at a disadvantage wich leads to massive punish combo’s!
I just have to practice it and learn the timings. Btw does anybody have a good combo after f+lp, hp I cant seem to do anything after it hits only do a f+mp into BnB?
You can’t combo off F+LP, HP - it’s only +1 on hit.
Then its a pure mixup tool. Thanks!