Yep. The infinite, for one.
Um, what infinite? SRK search doesn’t seem to be working at the moment.
I played MSF way back in the day, but never against anyone good. Plus that was way before SRK so everyone was doing hella basic shit - flossing our five-hit air combos.
On topic - Every no random game can be played competitively. So what if one hit kills? Kudos to the player that is able to get the one hit.
Who cares if combos are easy or not. Combos are not very relevant to see who is the better player. See MvC2. After 7 years of constant practice, thousands of players can do most of the useful stuff, and JWong keeps winning, nit because his fast fly has an extra hit, but because he plays smarter.
The MSH infinite (s.strong xx I forget what strength spider sting) still works in MSF, but not for Armor Spidey since he doesn’t go as high.
This game is much too hard with a keyboard.
i hate to quote long ass posts but this post is the motherfuckin truth. it sorta makes me wanna learn xvsf. i used to play this game like crazy back when i was a teen.
how good is charlie?
XvsF is definitely competitively playable and is by far one of the most intense and complicated games out there. Infinites do balance the game out, but even WITHOUT infinities the game is still pretty balanced. The only character that get’s worse is Zangief.
I don’t understand why people complain about getting grabbed cause I’ve been playin this game forever and I tech grabs about 90 percent of the time. It’s just timing like every other game, press forward and punch or kick when your character is about to get grabbed. Unless I dashed into the grab or something random like that I usually get a tech hit… It’s an essential skill to develop in this game (like rolling on reaction to a sweep) and without it, well, you’re scrub tacular.
I play this game at a very high level with extreemly good competition and I always know what’s going on in my matches. I always know HOW and WHY I lost or got hit by an infinite or mixup or super or w/e cost me the match. Once you get to a certain level of understanding of the game you can avoid being hit by anything game breaking and even if you do get hit you still have a second character to come back with. ( I don’t even want to get into how many games end up in a second character come back). That’s why I love this game. There’s never a sure winner of a match until the end of the match. I’ve seen characters come back with 1 pixel of health left after almost being perfected. The skill level of the players determines the winner of the match.
We have tournies and ranbats for this game in Ottawa and it’s always the same people who dominate consistently. I doubt that I’ll ever see some sabretooth scrub who uses Sj. jab ->Sj.short->Sj.strong ->grab or some weaksauce basic infinite player in the winners bracket. Just like any other game, reaction speed, execution, innovative strategy, quick thinking, and overall skills determine the winners of xvsf matches. The ability to execute an infinite is useless if you can’t use all of the above skills and more to create an oppening and capitalize.
See you all at Evo
Ouroborus charlie is Fawesome
you obviously werent at evo 2k6. not saying the guy was a scrub, but he was using the most basic of sabretooth’s stuff like what you said, and made it extremely far. top 5, i believe.
Major overstatement when it comes to “complicated”.
But if infinites are so rampant, then skill level would be very hard to determine in the sense that you say, because only one hit would end the match (assuming he is trying to come back with only one pixel of health). The skill level you refer to is mainly combo ability. Assuming some guy is a master of infinites, even if he is not that good at landing a combo to begin with, he can technically still win using two infinites. In this sense, even someone who doesn’t have much skill of the game (outside of combos) can beat a “skilled” player with lower combo execution.
Using your example of a character coming back with 1 pixel of health, and then stating that “skill level of the players determines the winner of the match”, we can invision a match where player 1 totally outsmarts player 2 in every way possible, bringing him down to 1 pixel of health. Player 1 makes no mistakes of any sort. Then, player 1 makes only two mistakes, each of them leading to him being infinited, costing him the match. In this case, the skill level of player 2 is likely not better than player 1, perhaps only in combo execution but nothing else.
So yeah, your comment doesn’t make much sense in regards to this particular game.
It’s been said before. Getting hit by an infinite involves making more than one mistake. There’s positioning(You shouldn’t be in a position where he “can” launch/combo/whatever you), there’s blocking(While in that position, you shouldn’t get hit by it), and a billion more that vary with matchup and circumstance. Likewise, there are offensive techniques to put them in positions they don’t want to be in, to attack in ways that are harder to defend against(I.E., Wave dash throws to counter wake-up blocking). The better players wins, it’s just how it works.
And, for the record, if their comboability was high enough, they’d only need one infinite. Not two. I made sure to break this game’s combos pretty hard. 
In spite of that, the matchup variances and gameplay depth “do” provide very complicated play. Even when playing full bitch-mode with 100% cheesecake infs, there’s still a world of tactic that leads up to it.
In all simplicity, there’s a reason a lot of people like Marvel over SF2, and it’s matchup diversity. Quite simply, Sentinel can “do more” than Deejay. With multiple avenues of attack / offense available, and a small helping of balance, it creates varied gameplay that doesn’t get boring as quickly. Sentinel might fight Storm a lot different than he fights Captain Commando.
XvsSF has that gameplay depth, with a balanced character selection. Honestly, infs aside, it’s just well built. Bison doesn’t have infs(Yes, Ozy did one on rogue, but I haven’t seen it since), and people still use him. His normals are straight rape, and his throw priority/loops are retarded. How is this possible, if comboability destroys everything in the game? All bison has is Launch -> Super. You think gambit wins because of comboability? He doesn’t. Does that mean that gambit can’t do a one pixel comeback? I did a Gambit Comeback last night.
Is combo knowledge / ability a factor? Of course. Is it the only factor? Hardly.
if anyone wants some serious xvsf competition, play this guy named blakjak, hes too good
XvsF is a complicated simply because you cannot make any mistakes. Everything you do has to be safe…period. No exceptions. And it takes ALOT of skill and experience to aviod making any crucial mistakes. This skill that I’m refering to isn’t specific to one aspect of the game. You have to know EVERY SING THING about EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER…this includes all the infinites, the best ways to set them up, what throw mixups are involved with these combos, and much much more. Once you know all of these things, you can watch out for them. For example, in cvs2 I know that Cammy can punish alot of my moves if I’m in her range and she’s out of mine, so I stay out of her range. In 3s, I usually empty jump against characters with DPs so I can parry instead of gettin anti aired. In xvsf it’s not that easy, it’s not about triple options or even quadruple options it’s about NOT knowing what you’re opponent is going to do, but know what your opponent CAN do so that you can react when it happens and avoid getting infinited. I play Juggs against Sabre and I’m usually in push block stun most of the match but I can win that match up (without using infinites)
It is interesting to see XSF players talk about XSF with cheesy infinites and without them like they are two separate games. I’ve even seen players say “in casual I’ll do cool shit and play with style but tournament time it’s all about the 3 hit repeated infinite.”
A lot of players choose not to use the tools available to win, because it is “cheesy” or not fun. To me that is the sign of a sub-par game. When I play SF2, I play the exact same way all the time, because the way you play well in SF2 is also fun.
Even a lot of XSF players seem to agree that the way to do well really isn’t very fun.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a SF2 player say “I won even without throws” or “I can do well even without cheesy crossups.”
I don’t think the points were brought up to brag, but just to counter other points that XSF is ‘all about learning how to infinite’.
Throws are a category all it’s own, winning without throws would be more comparable to winning without combos at all in XSF.
Another fair comparison would be “I won without this specific tick throw”, which was needed when people thought that the only SF strategy was low short tick throw.
ST is pretty neat, as long as you BAN Akuma. The real game is worse than XvSF, or almost anything that Capcom has ever released. Playing without cheesy Akuma, it is OK.
BTW, I do not want to ban anything from any game. To me, XSF should be played by Capcom rules, and so should ST. If it sucks too much, bring hyper fighter or another Marvel tourney and we’re good.
I do not buy the 2 different games argument, but Prozac’s many mistakes example is accurate. XvSF is not random, and even CFJ is not random. The better player wins. You may say the game has less depth and options and this may be true (I would not know) but, as long as the better player is always winning, the game is competitive. Save the hate for Mario Party at Evo 2008.
Another horrible point. You should just keep your mouth shut. Everyone trys flashy shit in casual, thats why its CASUAL PLAY. Any one who joins tournaments from MvC2 down to Super Turbo would tell you the exact same thing. Maybe you’re just a stale player with no style, but some people actually play games for fun.
If you want serious comp put down the keyboard and head to a tournament that has xvsf there. No one online has any kind of skill out side 3p 3k. taking pride playing online is lame. Wow my delay is less than yours im the b3st ev0r. My skills are h4xz0rs. o_O fuck online
TRUTH!
It’s a cool casual game, but competitively, no. Just… no.
Have you read ANY of the post what so ever?
id rather play something like dark stalkers 3. XvSF is fun but once you play it competitvely it just comes down to who gets a infinite combo 1st wins most of the time. Anyone who doesnt think so should play it competitvely and find out for your self.
If I want to play something balanced ill play ST, dark stalkers, VF4evo, or marvel super heroes.