yea…thats what i meant Damned lol. I shouldnt post when i first wake up…
Tien probably got to cap ginyu level. By the cell games, the rest of the humans probably got to ginyu force level as well. NO HUMAN COULD EVER TAKE FREEZA! THE IDEA OF THAT IS RIDICULOUS!
ooh the new movie is evidence isnt it
if tien can beat future trunks without trunks being ssj
and future trunks obviously is head and shoulders above chibi trunks even when he grows up, and chibi trunks in this new OVA beat up someone who is equal to freeza without SSJ…
please, how much more evidence is needed??
oh yeah and im pretty sure krillin > goten (without ssj atleast)
LMFAO.
Stick a fork in him, he’s done. And he admitted he’s trolling, already. Don’t bother anymore gentlemen.
I was just trying to find an answer like the rest of you, with actual evidence and not “what DBZ’s story is to me”
I admit though, I have allowed it to drag on quite long, guess there really is no reason of talking about it in the first place when people aren’t going to take everything into account, so yeah stick a fork in me im done, and also done with debating with people who are debating for no reason
I mean seriously who the hell debates for no reason 
End of “troll”. :bluu:
You’re the one who isn’t taking everything into account. We counter pointed your posts one by one, and you still harp on them like they are still valid.
Krillin cutting Buu in half. Filler. That means id didn’t really happen, and was outside of Toriyama’s origin storyline, therefore it holds no water.
Tien keeping up with base form Trunks. Movie/Film, which means it’s not canon. holds no water.
This is why I said you were done. What in God’s name makes you think Krillin is on par with Goten, or for that matter Freeza? Think about it. What evidence is there (canon, or filler) that validates Krillin having a power level on par with Freeza, and various Super Saiyans? Does that make any fucking sense?
People aren’t giving Tien enough credit. Yeah the kikoho let him delay Cell, but do you honestly think someone like Master Roshi could do that? Even if he learned an attack like the kikoho? He had to have at least some strength to effect someone on that level. Remember Krillin tried the destructo disk on Cell and it dissipated on his neck. This has always been the rule, if you’re too weak you don’t even affect the person you’re fighting.
Freeza was like nothing to SSJ Trunks who was nothing to Cell and Tien was enough on his level to delay him. Tien was definitely stronger than Freeza by the end of DBZ. You guys are putting way too much weight on the kikoho being some kind of miracle attack. Why don’t we teach it to the farmer with shotgun and see how long he delays Cell?
kikoho is like solar flare…its one of those techs that got nothing to do with your power lv.
Frieza>>>>>>>>>>>>Tien
That’s not how it works, either. The attack is like a multiplier, not a “miracle attack” as you put it. It’s like Kao ken, or the Kamehameha. It also drains your life energy. So tell me, how effective is it really, when your most powerful attack kills you, and the most it can do is stall another more powerful being?
You have to think within the context of the storyline when discussing this. There’s no way in hell Tien could duke it out evenly with any Super Saiyan, and there’s no evidence of the contrary. When people try to say Tien was any stronger than he should have been, they always say “He did that thing to Cell, so he must be stronger than insert major villain/power turning point here!”.
All Tien did was stall Cell. Cell was un-harmed, Tien was fucking exhausted. Hell, he could have stalled him with Solar flares or some other technique. That doesn’t make him Godlike in strength. The only Super powers at that time, other than the villains, were Piccolo, and the Saiyans. Period.
LOL, this reminds me when I used to lurk on the old Planetnamek.com boards…
I think Krillin using his disc in Cell’s neck was filler as well.
I personally do think Krillin is the strongest human, the comment Yamcha says to Marron at the tournament IS canon I believe.
Could they beat Freeza? I dunno. The way power levels grow exponentially in the series I suppose it’s possible.
ok so im wrong in adding tien vs trunks fight and wrong in showing krillin chop buu in half
what im getting at is theres a growth in the humans that is stronger than your admitting it to be
goku and piccolo vs radits? tien being able to semi survive against nappa. if tien was really that weak there is no way he could keep cell 2 at bay
theres a growth there that you wont accept because these characters arent in the spot light. i guess the fight with ginyu force on kais planet was filler too?
so theres no CANON evidence of these guys showing new strength, imo thats only because the strongest and villains were so strong, you’re all acting as if they hardly got anywhere in strength
well since nothings being accepted then the humans are as weak as you say they are, and also captain ginyu could probably show cell form 2 a thing or two i guess by that logic
kikoho was a technique to kill, it had force behind it, he used his ki to use it, also your forgetting that super saiyans dont have the same strength, goku ssj vs frieza is weaker than the goku ssj you see when he meets trunks
@ Ki Shima: God, you are SO retarded. Just because you got one thing right that I wasn’t even talking about and taking into consideration when I called you retarded doesn’t mean you aren’t so.
Lol at “cocksucker”–it’s one word, dumbass–being your only comeback.
Oh no! I suck cocks! The horror!
Even if I did, it would just something else that I was better than you at.
Moron. Welcome to the Ignore List.
Uh…no one is saying that Tien is a weakling. Just that he isn’t strong enough and he’s certainly not Freeza level.
Hell, by the time Dragon Ball Z starts, even Chaotzu is stronger than Master Roshi, who has completely stopped training and only still exists as for the sake of a)continuity and b)perversion. We all know how fucking worthless Chaotzu is.
I’ll say it again. Yamcha, who is stronger than Chaotzu, got absolutely beasted by Android 19, who pretty much also manhandled Krillin and Tien around that time too IIRC. Yet they got beaten by Super Saiyan Vegeta who was probably still (a lot) weaker than Final Form Freeza.
Krillin and Tien, thusly, aren’t much stronger than Yamcha, at least to be able to defeat Freeza.
If you’re not an alien by the time Future Trunks comes into play, then you’re completely worthless. End of story.
(And for the record, I think Freeza and King Cold jobbed to Future Trunks horribly considering everyone else was shitting themselves Krillin and Tien included, but that’s just me and my being convinced that after the Freeza saga, Toriyama was just carelessly pulling things out of his ass.)
P.S. What you’re saying isn’t exactly completely true since Yajirobe cut off Vegeta’s tail at the end of the Saiyan saga and I really don’t think that even by the end of DBZ Yajirobe was Saiyan Saga Vegeta-level at that time.
Similarly, Gohan managed to hold off Freeza’s second form for a bit before Piccolo came and in beasted him before Freeza went to third form. Yet Gohan was still getting his asskicked because he was (significantly) weaker than that form.
In fact, the only time I remember what you’re talking about coming into play was against Perfect Cell himself, who was artifically stronger than Freeza and thus much, much stronger than everyone who wasn’t Goku or Gohan. I’m talking like lightyears of distance stronger.
So who would tap ChiChi’s ass?
No one is saying they can’t/haven’t/don’t get stronger. What I’m saying is they don’t get stronger at nearly the rate the aliens (Piccolo, and the Saiyans) do, and they were no where near their strength near the end of the whole shebang.
What does a 3-way battle between aliens, have to do with Tien, and the rest of the humans?
Dude, he died during that battle. And it was his oh my go oh so powerful Kikoho that killed him off, which Nappa brushed the fuck off.
Nappa got dirty, bruised, yes. But no one could seriously hurt Nappa at the time, other than Goku.
I’m tired of addressing this. Refer to my past several post for this.
And there’s a reason they weren’t. Because they couldn’t keep up.
Yes.
Again, what the hell does that have to do with your argument? It’s like you’re not even on the same planet as everyone else, here.
She’s plain and hella psycho. Hell no.
I would rather take chances with Launch, since at least the crazy side of her can be reasoned with (as long as she doesn’t have a weapon) and she was decently pretty and especially nice in her “normal” form.
Solar flare blinds you. Kikoho is an actual energy attack. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen those get shrugged off, even in the saiyan saga. Also you don’t know exactly how much it “multiplies” tien’s power either so stop acting like you do. You’re just assuming it multiples it enough to support your theory. If Tien was weaker than Freeza the Kikohou would have to multiply his power by a ridiculous amount since Cell was already many times more powerful than Freeza.
I believe the power table is something like this:
Freeza > Super Saiyan > Cyborg Freeza > Super Saiyan after a couple years training > Androids > Cell > Super Piccolo > Imperfect Cell
Yet somehow Tien can effect the last link in that chain while being weaker than the first? I don’t buy it. It makes zero sense.
ok so his back up is the maker is pulling stuff out of his ass and also ssj vegeta is weaker than freeza, what an asshole
taken from wiki.
i dont think anyone should listen to him because he’s making up DBZ as he goes along, artificially stronger than frieza? goku was hiding from the androids and normal cell to become stronger, this is goku 3 years after fighting final form frieza and beasting him
he’s full of shit, end of discussion.
edit: sorry shade but you’re not really getting what im saying, never mind.
Your table seems kind of wack. Is “Cell” there supposed to be Perfect Cell or just Cell after he absorbed 18? Regardless, Cell should be above the androids at that point and those Super Saiyans should be switched unless you meant “a couple years without training”.
Anyway, to me, Imperfect Cell was pretty weak, especially since Super Piccolo (heh) was handling him pretty much until he ran away and Super Piccolo was only able to keep up with Freeza’s second form, which I’m sure was much weaker than his Final Form.
(How much so I don’t know.)
That’s something you have to keep in mind as well: the Freeza everyone is talking about is Freeza’s Final Form.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Tien could maybe keep up with Freeza’s first form, but I don’t remember if that form even fought. And we know that second form raped Krillin, who Tien probably isn’t much stronger then, so, even after those years of preparation for the Androids, no one’s power seemed to really increase drastically outside of Vegeta’s. Who is, surprise surprise, an alien.
I know it’s hella disappointing, but humans in DBZ eventually become equivalent to Oolong: worthless.
First form freeza fought with Nail, ripped off his arm, and beat him with it. Well not really, but he may as well have. Also Super Piccolo got his ass handed to him by Imperfect Cell, remember? Goku had to pick his ass up, as well as Tien after he was exhausted.
Also I know it’s non-canon, but Tien was shown holding his own against Trunks in Movie 9. It was written by Toriyama so that still gives some indication of where he thought Tien was power-wise.
For the record I think this whole conversation is thoroughly retarded- random new DBZ villain has to be stronger than the previous one (and thus the heroes have to get stronger), even if it doesn’t make sense or is dumb. The DBZ story is a victim of that sort of thinking.
However,
SSJ Goku beat Freeza, Piccolo was going even with #17 (both #18/17 being strong than #19/20 from what I remember), Vegeta got his shit caved in by #18 when they first met, IIRC.