41

Thank you SuperKewl for saying what I did not. You really are super cool.

42

I cant keep up with these memes, very confusing. I’m used to old fashion english. And new? Hardly. I’ve frequented this site back in SFA3 days, and have played fighters since in the womb. I’ve never heard the term before. Sounds like bad word choice, flat out. A lot of us gamers are nerds right? technique would suffice.

43

More slang than a meme. And I’ve been hearing it for years now. Kinda weird you haven’t. Not saying you’re lying, but it’s just a hard slang term to avoid.

For the record, I find it kind of silly, too, but I just don’t care about the words people use to talk about things enough to say it shouldn’t be said.

Anywho, yeah it’s worth using him. Otherwise, how’re you gonna find out if he’s decent? The game is too young to just flat-out say someone is trash. And even if PW is generally trash, he might be able to make some niche thing work, and if you care about the character, hurray.

44

Hey is anyone playing well with Phoenix Wright against 5th and 6th Lords? I have to say once I hit this mark PW became unusable.
I’ve been playing PW since release. I won the release tournament with him abusing Maya Shield and getting free combos when people tried to attack me.
In the next tournament about a week later it was a SRK SoVA thing and I placed in third netting some money thanks to Phoenix.
But now that people have gotten more used to their characters I feel like my PW just doesn’t hold up.

Against Ghost Riders/Magnetos/Doom I can’t even bring out Maya because she gets hits coming in and then the next projectile/whip knocks her down as well as hits me if I’m trying to gather evidence. Against teleporters I wait till they tele in, jump back so I don’t get caught by internet mixup shennanigans and call out anti-air Hulk to get the teleporter off of me. From there I’m normally rushed down so hard that I can’t get Maya out. Not to mention if I do they will just sit right outside of it and grab me if I try to gather evidence.

don’t even feel the risk/reward anymore. Nothing makes me sadder then blocking a mix-up, blocking a lock down assist, blocking the next mix up, push blocking at just the right time… only to pick up that useless bonsai tree. Not to mention I can only pick up one evidence on these successful block strings or after a combo. Unless I combo into Maya’s Steel Samurai. Which is still only two pieces of evidence.

In my crazy fit to play PW I decided to pick up a new playstyle. Instead of playing PW in investigation mode, I would always start in courtroom mode. I would block mixups accordingly and use the proper assists to help out. When my opponent gets close I spam Hulk anti-air assist and Light Paperwork. Light Paperwork is amazing at keeping people off of me from the air. But the real trick is once my opponents get used to blocking the paper I will run in behind it. sL -> sM -> sH
if they blocked then I will Light Paperwork and continue the assault. If it hits then the combo looks like sL -> sM -> sH -> sH -> jH -> jH -> jS -> sH -> qcfMH
If my opponent is in the corner then I will relaunch and use the judge hyper for about 560k. If Maya’s Steel Samurai hit mid-screen then that’s two free evidence.

This was still pretty tough to play against teleporters but I made it work. What really ruined everything for me was three things:

  1. Air juggle doesn’t work on all characters. Not just small, it doesn’t work on Tronne Bonne unless in the corner.
  2. Even if the first Light attack hits, if the opponent is crouching then you can’t hit with Inspiration to start the juggle.
  3. No range. PW has the smallest range on all of his normals. You HAVE to be in normal grab range to hit people, anything else and you’ll knock people away from your own combo leaving yourself vulnerable.

Honestly playing PW this way has made him more viable against better players, but in the end it’s ridiculously difficult to gather evidence against people who spam multi-hit projectiles and against good rush-down pressure that also patiently wait for grab if you pull out Maya Shield.
Anyways how are you guys holding up?

45

I like the idea of playing in courtroom most of the time, switching back to trial only to occasionally get evidence. Gonna investigate this.

46

I see what you did thar.

47

He does too much damage and his zoning is mad annoying once you get going with him.

So yes he is worth it.

48

To bring this back off-topic for a sec: Technology and technique are two different things, and technology applies in this case. Technique is better used to describe a player and his skill, while technology is better used to describe new strategies, methods, combos, etc.

Type in “technology” in the search bar, then you would see that it’s pretty widely used.

Back on topic: Like UD said, OP, it really depends on what “worth it” means to you. If you like the guy, then keep on playing him. If you would like to win some more, and really don’t like all the effort you need to put into Wright, then ditch him.

49

I got ripped apart a lot when I started off doing this. But learning how to play him solo in courtroom mode has really upped my chances of winning with him if he ends up being my last guy and without turnabout mode. I’m rather good at blocking and I’ve gotten a few wins from using the Light Paperwork and immediately dashing in afterwards. I’ve gotten a few free wins this way because the last thing Teleport McGee expects is to be rushed down by a Defense Attorney.

50

Not if you’re going to just use his assist (which I dont really see any other way to play him competitvly)

If you’re just gonna use his assist, pick Hsien-Ko for similar effect and way less effort.

51 
 Come on now. Technique in this instance refers to applied skill; refinement of methods based on the character you're dealing with. Most characters require a certain style of play. That style of play is tantamount to learning what techniques to use based on that moveset. That's what I was getting at, that based on his unique style, learning how to play with him well is gonna require learning the proper technique, which is pretty much what the other fellow was getting at when he said the other tech word.

Back to topic, I think Phoenix Wright got disbarred. I saw it on tv today.

52

I have the same opinion with others here, if you like the character then it’s worth it. If you’re a competitive player it’s not worth it, for me I lose a lot with Phoenix Wight but I’ll still play him. I would say also that if you’re having a hard time getting evidence or have bad evidences and don’t have the chance to discard them then try to get at least one good evidence, go to courtroom mode, and try to fend the opponent off with the evidence and better normals, also for mixups I think you can try to do c.L->c.M->6M(Slip up) cancel into a different stance.

53

Dunno, I agree with you on your definition of “technique”, it’s just that I feel that he was referring to technology. Hell, I’ve never heard “tech” being short for “technique”. You’re right about how people’s “technique” with PW needs to improve, but I felt that that post was more about finding new “technology” for Wright players to use.

But whatever. Not a big deal anyway, I fuss over grammar/spelling/usage way too much.

54

What I was saying is that ones technique is based off of his skill set. If a player is high tier, it’s not gonna require much technique, if lower tier, it’ll require more. In that sense I was saying that technique has everything to do with the characters abilities as much as ones ability to play with them.

55

Alright, technology is a dumb word to use for strategy but it’s the word being used and it’s been used for years. Can we move on now? As in, back to topic?

56

It’s too early man, but he is really worth it.

57

Nope. Like PKSkyler said, if you want an invincible hyper to apply pressure, Hsien-Ko gets the job done just as well, you just have to be careful about her taking damage.

His normals are too short in range (almost thor throw range for christ’s sake…) his combos are too clunky, he only has one natural reset that’s a corner combo and Maya hyper is pretty much useless and restricts the rest of his keep away game. He’s fun to use every once in a while, but honestly, when playing against good people, the likelihood of you actually getting to turnabout mode is only about 20%, even with the fact that you can get to it through TAC.

On the competitive scene, he’s just not worth the time. Maybe if he had a single good standing or crouching normal, or if you could sort of suss out what sort of evidence you’re going to pick up. But it’s too much of an unsafe gimmick. Pheonix works because you can use a competent team to get 5 bars regardless of your skill with her. Wright doesn’t because any competition rushdown game shuts down the thing the needs to do to become powerful.

58

Fact: Capcom spent immense amounts of time on PW, putting crazy amounts of thought into his design, not just visually and mechanically but also in terms of play and balance.

Opinion: Capcom gave PW precisely what he needed to be a perfect opportunist…and not a smidge more.

Problem: people play him as a keepaway character. But Capcom didn’t design PW to halt rushdown; no, I think Phoenix Wright was designed with a different ability in mind - to control your opponent. To funnel them into making specific decisions through screen control via Maya+assists, and to then take advantage of mistakes. When the match starts, you’re already given slight control - your opponent has to prevent you from gathering evidence, necessitating rushdown. Maya’s shield then further controls by narrowing options: bash away the shield, or get over it somehow. The first can be punished via the shield’s front invincibility, and the second is where prediction (assists), counters, and character-specific knowledge (teleports) comes into play. You’re meant to narrow the opponent’s choices and predict their remaining movements; they WILL be aggressive and they WILL make mistakes. PW then has to be the opportunist and punish those mistakes (combo/team hyper -> evidence).

Deliberate precision is key. A good PW player will know precisely how much evidence they can gather by who they’re against and what’s happening on the screen. You have to know exactly how much time each assist gives you on block and hit, how much time you have after a team hyper, how much time Maya stays out, everything. PW should never be getting caught collecting evidence or switching modes; you should only be getting comboed after some crazy unblockable or ridiculous mixup. Everything else should be in your control the entire match. Again, that’s how I believe Capcom designed PW - they gave him the health to last long enough to carefully watch and predict opponents’ movements, along with the specials to protect him while doing so.

Yeah, he’s got horrible normals, and practically no jump-in combos. Well, duh. That wouldn’t make sense with PW’s playstyle - he’s not Spencer, Wesker, or Zero; he’s an opportunist. Otherwise, you might actually start rushing down with PW; Capcom took obvious pains to completely prevent that until Turnabout mode (and what a good job they did). Of course, once turnabout mode is reached, everything changes. What with his suddenly high damage output, spammable projectiles, x-factor infinites and crazy lvl 3, a good PW should be able to do at least a few one-touch kills in Turnabout.

Summary: Phoenix Wright was created to be and should be played as an opportunist - controlling the flow of the match and patiently waiting for an opening, NOT running away and hoping they can’t figure out how to jump. Then, once Turnabout is reached, you should literally be able to turn the tables and start rushing down yourself; using your own mixups, resets, and able to land several of your own one-touch kills.

59

Really well said, the game is early and I already feel like Phoenix is being played wrong. Almost every time I see a Phoenix Wright he’s backing up, attempting to dig for evidence the second the match starts then gets blown up by a Wesker or a Zero and he’s finished. The player isn’t taking the time to set up the search, using assists, using Maya, using some of the solid tools he has in standard mode, nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, Turnabout is incredible, but there isn’t any rush to get there. Surgically controlling the flow of the match with Maya and assists and getting all the evidence you need in 30-45 seconds isn’t a detriment to your gameplan. Thinking you have to get into Turnabout in the first 5 seconds is. As the game evolves I think we’ll be seeing more and more well played Phoenix Wrights out there, and potentially one or two in the Top 32 at Evo.

60

While I see some truth in what you guys are saying, I seriously think you’re overestimating Phoenix Wright’s abilities to control a match.

Maya + Assists right? While Maya is certainly useful, the shield really isn’t all that amazing and has a recharge time that can be fatal. As for assists…guess what, your opponent has them too.

So in other words, you’re saying Wright should be able to control the flow of the match against characters who are much faster, much stronger, and much more farther-reaching just because he has Maya (who can’t even be rapidly used) and assists (which your opponent also has)?

Also, not in a rush to get to turnabout mode? Really? If you’re not in turnabout mode, you’re stuck with a character who has arguably the worst normals in the game, is one of the slowest characters in the game, is one of the weakest at opening people up in the game, and has mediocre damage. If Phoenix Wright is not in turnabout mode, he is a major liability to your team that probably won’t even last long considering he is almost completely helpless when it comes to harming any high/top tier character.

I love Phoenix Wright to death, have beaten all his games, and really want to see the good in him, but all he’s really good for is turnabout mode, and even that leaves him hard pressed to be anything higher than a low tier that has his shining moments.

At least he’s still a hilarious and fun character.