Is T.Hawk competetive?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
121

It’s not about the devs. It’s about the market place. Capcom knows that the tournament seen is based more on arcades than home consoles. If they choose to update, then ideally every console and arcade versions should be updated. The cost of hiring technicians to go after hours to update every arcade console is the main factor here. Not to mention, for every update they will have to do the same thing again.

I guarantee you will not see T. Hawk improve. SSFIV has a huge cast of fighters and I’m sure CAPCOM ain’t sweating knowing that 10 of these fighters will b S/A/B tier enough for the tournament scene. They would only be jepeodizing this scene by introducing different versions of their fighters to the public. Learn with what you have people.

122

Screw this mess… Im switching to adon until people are done bitching about other people bitching about t-hawk.

123

it’s tempting but I’ll just stick with t.hawk

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lol goodluck, although alot of Adon players are optimistic, there are plenty of people who thought he’d be a shoto-clone with a cool laugh, and expect him to be easy mode. Sadly Adon suffers from some lack of tools and mostly bad priority on some moves, but learning which moves work in which situations make him a strong character.

Kind of reminds me of Ken in SF4. He had 3 SRKs and the fierce was the best combo finisher, the medium SRk was his true anti-air, and his lp. SRK was better for crouchers, etc. Well, it took probably over a year for most of the forum Ken players to even realize that mp SRK was the true anti-air…we’d have tons of whiners complain about Ken’s SRK being weaksauce, etc because the hitbox on the fierce wasn’t good against alot of air attacks and would often trade or whiff on crouchers, etc.

I guess all i want to say to T. Hawk players is to get a feel for the situations where one special may work better than the other, perhaps that is the case with T. Hawk as well. And dont give up, he’s not SF4 Vega/Guile tier, even if he’s in the mid-bottom (which i highly doubt due to his high HP), you can often turn that into a strong point. Alot of people took Fei Long, Gen, and even Vega in SF4 and made some serious damage in tournaments with them. And do i need to mention Gilley’s Guile?

125

T Hawk is mentioned to be in the B+ tier, however, more towards the bottom of B+:

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T.Hawk will at least be able to stick around in the tier even if he doesn’t move up. I highly doubt he would drop. He’s just too good at taking damage and dishing it out to be considered garbage.

127

Now that we have an initial tier list and they’re favorable for T. Hawk, let’s drop this debate over his quality.

Let’s get back to finding more strategies with T. Hawk!

128

T.Hawk’s game has almost no depth to it - he has no real combos other than the extremely unsafe s.mp xx tomahawk which is really only good if you have 3 bars of meter and hit confirm the combo.

This is going to matter at high level play when everyone knows how T.Hawk plays and how to counter him - which by the way is extremely easy thanks to Hawks shitty specials and the god tier neutral jump.

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T.Hawk is B+ tier in SSFIV:

[THREAD CLOSED]

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T.Hawk was good in ST. Just wasn’t popular. There is a difference between not being a popular character, and being a bad character. The reason why T.Hawk wasn’t so popular, is because it took a lot of dedication to get him to a competitive level. Tick negative edge “reverse piano” 360’s all day.

T.Hawk is the Urien of ST. Slept on for so long. Thought to be crap in the beginning. Turned out to be a deadly character if you have patience and execution.

People who actually play ST competitively, know this. Which is why we understand the reasons behind Capcom/Sirlin changing up T.Hawk to have a 360 throw whiff/startup animation in HDR, in an attempt to balance him. This prevented Hawk from doing the extremely powerful and safe loop of death. Hawk is still very effective in HDR.

SSFIV Hawk imo…suffers due to the game engine. Hawk was almost like a paradox in ST. He had the most difficult learning curve in the game. But he had the simplest game plan to counter that difficulty. No matter who he fought, his goal was to simply get one knock down. After that, death loop, GGPO. (of course, under the surface… his strategy may invovle trying to bait certain characters differently to get the knockdown. But his overall plan was the exact same. One knock down. GGPO) In SSFIV however, it feels like the guy has so much going against him. It’s like the engine was designed to beat him. Anti-Air xx FADC backwards to get out of jail from his mixup attempts. Incvincible backdashes beat his shitty uppercut/360/super/Ultra1 attempt after ticks.

Seems like T.Hawk has to work extremely hard just to get a knockdown. His best knockdown that leaves them in range to even attempt a mixup, is jab 360, which does crap damage. Even if you get that jab version 360 to set up more mixups… it seems they don’t have much to worry about getting out of your mixup attempts. anti-air xx FADC backwards, or just backdash. Their anti air beats Hawks shitty DP, condor spire, 360, and super attempt. If Hawk does nothing, they FADC back to safety.

There’s obviously much more to it than this, but just giving an example of something so basic, that screws him so hard.

Eearly tier lists are always taken with a big grain of salt, because they always change. It’s not like they are taking the best players of each character, and pitting them up against eachother in a round robin. It’s basically a bunch of people sharing information, about what they’ve seen or theorize about, and make into a tier chart. This is why down the road, the tier lists change. Because once you start getting tournament experience with this game, you get people who are actually seasoned with these characters, facing off. Early tier lists change, with every game. SSFIV will be no exception

I just can’t see T.Hawk staying at B+. I think he’s going to slowly slide down the tier list, stopping at the bottom of general B, or upper C… unless somebody finds something with him, just shy of a glitch. lol

Jive Out!

131

first off is sounds like you have never made any real attempt at playing a command grab character.the game for them is called big time foostie. almost like a chess game. if i give you a jab jab(pawn, pawn) will you see that i just trapped you fror a grab worth 3 times the health you just took from me?

second off all most of the escapes from thawk’s move set you metioned can be said about any other character. hell i pullled most of those “get out of jail” moves using thawk against ryu ( back dash, fadc back dash etc.) and after knockdown there gona eat a cross over dwn+hp- S+mp-ex+TB( dragon punch)- ex+Condor spire. which constitutes almost half a life bar around 400 damage.

so you say what if TH has to ex bar( a good player would have alread built one since with him is easy)so same cross over scenario with non ex tomahawk buster which resets them to their back on the ground. also with sho players you have to be wary of trading a dp of theirs on cross over. but they eat dirt after, so reset again. thats just one way of many. am i gonna bluff a CS and land pre 360 buffed and make you taste my palm and dirt? welcome to a grab character and the game of chess.

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What?!?!? Footsie’s isn’t my issues with T.Hawk. Don’t even know why you brought that up. That’s a universal surface issue with any character in any fighting game. My issue with T.Hawk is beyond general footsies. I was talking about once Hawk actually get’s inside, AFTER a knockdown. It seems like he has a really difficult time successfully applying another true mixup, and keeping the pressure on. My point was, beyond the footsies stage. Once you actually get inside/a knockdown. Thanks for “pro tip” though. lol

Wait. I was saying that anti-air xx FADC backwards aka uppercut xx FADC backwards was a get out of jail card against Hawk. I did mention regular backdash as well, but my main reference to get out of jail was anti-air xx FADC backwards. Now, you are claiming that you used these tactics as Hawk, against Ryu, to get out of jail. You even include FADC xx back dash. Interesting. Because T.Hawk can’t FADC his uppercut. So are we to assume you were FADC’ing a normal? Close s.MK? Close s.strong? Jab? Short?. How were you jailed by Ryu? Because when jailed properly, if you attempt a normal, it gets beaten out by your opponents normal due to frame advantage they have. Or, your opponents throw will beat out your normal, again, due to frame advantage. So I’m really curious as to what true “jailed” situation you were in, that you were able to stick out normal from T.Hawk of all people, have it uninterrupted…and able to FADC back to safety. Because we all know it wasn’t an uppercut you FADC’d.

Right. Whiff CS into 360 is SSFIV T.Hawk 101. Never would have thought of that. Again, thanks for the “pro tip” chief. But sadly, again, getting inside wasn’t my main concern with Hawk. And if you are talking about whiffing CS into 360 as the opponent wakes up… again…uppercut xx FADC beats that out.

You taught me so much sensei! :rolleyes:

In my post, I stated that uppercut xx FADC was one little tool, that screwed T.Hawk so much. I didn’t say it was the ONLY reason T.Hawk has issues. I was making a point how the game engine seems to work against him so hard. It feels to me at time, that T.Hawk doesn’t belong in this game at all. T.Hawk can’t even fADC his own specials. lol

Jive Out!

133

I am ranked number 1 in UK with T Hawk and 3rd in Europe, according to the rankings.

Of course I sometimes play with other characters but none are more satisfying to play in my opinion. I was a Gief main in vanilla.

I play T Hawk like I feel he should be played - patient with pokes all day until I get in and land huge damage.

Controlling your opponent is vital with Hawk, EX spire through fireballs and far st.HK on counter has caught many a scrub off guard.

I have held my own against some good players and I find no weakness with Hawk unless you expect every move to be safe which is ridiculous. If I lose I blame myself not the character

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yes but more so than any other .it is essential with grab toons. i have not had any type of hard time getting a knock down. his lp 360 is the easiest to land after any jump in by you or them and the cross over combos i mentioned above apply pressure just fine because they all do massive damage. while not the combo/grab toon like abel, he like zangief isnt supposed to have many. the POINT of all there moves is to get inside for the grab

FADC i was referring to was absorption .
[/quote]

so my bad on the typo

no not talking wif CS. with anything else but lp 360 they get tossed across screen. so a typical for me is s.mp in TB and they get knocked down and away. i do a very short hop to a C.D. on there wake up and land right in front of them. now my options are 360 buffer(while still in air of CD) to grab , block and counter, ex C.S. (os if a sho ) into a ex TB into a ex CD. or focus absorb their sweep/dp ( i only do this OS when behind in life or way head to end the round) . use your extra health since you have it. and im not sure of exact frame advantage, but lp 360 usually grabs between links and on attempts to start one on there jump in . i usually block buffer and execute .

mute point. it gives everyone problems. if i get hit by it its me not the hawk thats at fault.

im not trying to be a dick here with all my responses. im trying to point out things you may have missed because it doest sound like youve played him a great deal. if i came off as a dick, my bad. i need some more caffeine and nicotine and ill be ok. but sarcasm isnt very becoming of you chief :shake:

word

135

There’s a reason I have almost 500 reversals. In my experience, ANY 360 will work.

136

agreed my buffer brother

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I’m at 5k bp now online and I’d say Hawk is definitely somewhere around ass-tier.

Why? Neutral jump, jump back, & backdash. This completely destroys what you thought was Hawks mixup game as you realize you can’t tick into SPD anymore and you can’t 50/50 into a knockdown if they jump like Zangief can with lariat. If you’re psychic you can tomahawk a neutral jump…maybe.

Now combine that with how stupidly unsafe Hawks specials are, his complete lack of solid combos, and his complete inability to deal with pressure & crossups. You now have a shit tier character at top level.

I know that sounds really negative but Hawk is going to slide down the tier list really quickly as the top players figure out how easy it is to deal with him - I can pretty much guarantee you he will not be winning any serious tourneys.

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Wow a Tier list comes out and this thread actually gets STUPIDER.

WAIT a second… did someone just start their post by attempting to use their online BP score to try and establish credibility? Isnt this when all of shoryuken.com descends upon them like a pack of rabid wolves and neg-reps them to hell?

139

Don’t be such a dickhead.

I mentioned my BP ranking because when you get higher up in BP you start to play more experienced players and your games become a lot harder. Things that work against lower BP players stop working against the better players - the biggest thing being that they learn how to avoid tick SPD setups which completely destroys Hawks only strength, his ‘mixup game’.

As SSF4 matures Hawk is only going to get worse and worse. They’ll never do a balance patch but Hawk is one of the characters most in need of adjustment - the startup on condor spire is fucking stupid, the fact that it’s punishable on HIT at many ranges is stupid, his U2 is simply fucking retarded in how strict it is, etc.

140

Things that beat n.jump:
EX DP (essentially safe on block if you have another meter)
cl.MP (also one of Hawks best 360 setups, as it’s +0 on block)
fast low dive
uf LP
buffering U2
doing absolutely nothing
pretty much anything that doesn’t involve 360+P