These two contrasting ideas aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.
I totally understand where Gridman is coming from, I’ve seen him play some hype matches against high level players and come out the victor. Hawk can win. I’ve been upping my Hawk game a lot and trying to find anything and everything I can with him. He has good normals that contribute to a solid spacing game that can be outright intimidating, he’s mobile, he can punish hard, I like his backdash, and an untechable knockdown can lead into some scary stuff. I can also buffer spd/720 off of about 8 different normals to try and keep showing my opponents new things.
I also agree with UltraDavid that Hawk isn’t very deep. Once you get that knockdown hawk doesn’t have a bevy of options to him. Your best, non-shenanigan, safe options are actually just one option that only changes whether they block or not (corssup splash). Those 8 different normals used as buffers… yeah they all lose to the same things. I also agree that Hawk is gonna have some terrible, throw the stick at the tv kind of matchups that may severely hamstring him. However, there are 35 characters in the game… these things happen and if gridman can beat lucky D’s dhalsim there is some hope. But maybe the more they play the less the cl.mk tick into 360/720 isn’t gonna work? it may be safe to assume this, it might not be.
In the end, not every character may need to be especially deep. I’m sure people can think of some examples of a character that didn’t have a lot of options but could really hold their own with… you know, fundamentals and conditioning your opponent-- I think Hawk has enough tools (big range spd, ex spire, st.mp, etc) to win by using those two concepts. He can capitalize on his opponents errors (or if Guy crouches… man I feel bad for him). I also think that’s a hard playstyle for a lot of people these days–thus the complaining.
On the complaining subject. let’s discuss.
“omg, ____ is such a sucky move”. There’s a lot in here so let’s unpack this. This may be true in some situations, but not all–this is the case for most every move in the game. Example: Shoryuken’s are great but they aren’t always the answer. All of Hawk’s moves have specific uses. They are good at those things. They suck in other situations. It is up to us as players to figure it out.
Spire Sucks–ranting about how spire is unsafe on hit means you are doing the wrong one. There are 3 normals and one EX. Please get used to their ranges and attributes. Yes hawk’s moves have slow startup and some big recovery. He’s also the largest character in the damn game. This isn’t tekken and he isn’t Bob (we have rufus for that category). I think Hawk’s great normals, that stuff tons of things, contributed to this–think of it as a balancing act. Personally, if I have to choose (and most characters do–let’s not dwell on the exceptions ok people?) I’d take the badass normals.
His DP Sucks–pretty much, but so do Guy’s Tatsus. And like them, they each have a specific job. You are probably using them incorrectly and way too much. They have specific uses. Become aware of them. Be judicious with your use of them. You don’t need this move outside of combos, a telegraphed poke (and you have better options to beat that) and on wakeup for EX to beat pressure/escape with EX Dive. If you play smart, you really don’t need to be spamming specials. This is a playstyle issue. You have normals to use as AA options. And they rock. Please get used to cl.MP, cr.HP, thrust peak, and st.RH and the ranges they are good for.
Dive is Unsafe/loses to other moves–yep. Hawk is tied for most life in the game and does big damage. If there was no risk to Dive that would just be dumb. And not a lot of specials are safe on block (projectiles aside) from the whole cast. Also, in case you haven’t noticed, lots of stuff trades in this game. That is the structure within which we must work. Lots of moves lose to other moves too–and there are a lot of moves in this game. Let’s throw out the term “balance” and just move on. As it is, Dive can cross people up, you can cancel j.jab into it (even jumping backwards!), it breaks focus, and you can cover a ton of screen and bait reversals with a safe dive after a fierce typhoon. So, again, you are overusing/using it incorrectly. It is a tool for punishing/conditioning/baiting. It isn’t a go-to.
Hawk has no wake up game!–Totally, outside of EX DP you are screwed if they time things correctly. However, everybody can block. Please learn to do so. There is no guard break system in this game. Why aren’t you blocking? “But then chip damage!”–you have the highest health in the game. I think you can take it. “But then i get thrown!!!”–you should be option select teching all day. Just cause you can’t react to throw techs or you allowed yourself to eat a walkup throw isn’t hawk’s fault.
I think this covers most of the complaints. In my view, Hawk is much better in action than on paper. His tools make him very effective at very important aspects of the game. We have to be strong players to be strong with hawk. He isn’t simple and, at the same time, he isn’t deep. His complexity comes from the proper usage of his toolset and the ability to read and react to each situation with the proper tool. let’s keep it civil and move this forum forward, guys.