And yet you’ve said nothing for about a month.
I should have time nothing but time in the coming days (outside of Monday and then Thursday night).
I can’t really comment on the actual topic of this thread since I haven’t really given Sonic a chance.
answer to thread=yes
play Lucky. or play me if you’re on east coast
whoa I said that definitely a long time ago…I had been pretty busy with college and life and what not…but now that summer has started. I think it’s time…=D I’m not even sure if we’ve exchanged friend codes and do you frequent the brawl irc chat? I show up there occasionally. I would like to play your Snake and see how that match fares for the hedgehog.
Pretty much the only time I was on IRC was for the tournaments here.
That said, I have to download mIRC again and otherwise put you in my Friend Code thing (but I do have the master list, afterall).
So I’m ready when you are. I have free time until Thursday and then I work on Friday night as well. So…?
(We might get to play each other Wednesday, regardless, though.)
P.S. I do have to buy a new Gamecube controller since mine keeps sticking to up or down, but that hasn’t really deterred me greatly at the moment. On top of that, though, I think my connection with Wi-Fi is acting up.
But, yeah, whenever you want to do this, I can be on since no one else is at the moment.
If you’re free right now…then that’d be awesome. I’m jumping onto the iirc chat so if you show up on their I’ll be waiting.
Edit: better yet i’m gonna find your brawl code on the list and go ahead and put it in…if you happen to pop up online we’ll brawl!
Mine is 3652-0227-0431.
I already have yours.
I’ll be on for like an hour or so. You can host the room since my thing is acting up.
got your name as well…awaiting registration…
I still don’t have my items to evo rules yet…I’ll try to fix em as we go a long
Edit: gotta let you know your snake is indeed beastly…and as much as you’re beating me right now this matchup doesn’t really seem to be too bad…I can’t get over this lag though >(…it’s fucking me up horribly you cannot believe
As some have pointed out by others have missed, the only thing Sonic is fast at is running (and walking). His attacks are slow on startup and he’s not even fast in the air (i.e., he doesn’t fall fast).
O RLY?
The Top- and High Tiers disagree:
Fox - Ridiculous priority
Falco - Ridiculous priority
Sheik - Ridiculous priority
Marth - Ridiculous range and priority
Peach - Ridiculous priority on select moves
The ones directly below them either have Ridiculous range or Ridiculous Priority of both. Priority and range = Very good. Have neither = Bad. Not surprisingly, the Low Tiers consists of a lot of characters with little range and priority.
- What’s preventing people from meteor smashing you on the way up? Or just aerialing you?
- What’s to prevent everyone else from stutter stepping to get even more range than Sonic? It’d be good if it was a Sonic-specific tech. Not so much when everyone can do it.
He’s slow when compared to the rest. Except for a select few moves that aren’t very good at KO:ing.
In response, because I don’t like it when accurate info is used as a cock-bludgeon.
Sonic’s walking and running speed are one of the best, and the best in the game respectively. His priority is bollocks yeah, but movement speed combined with the activation speeds on his tilts and two out of three smashes make his overall move effectiveness about average, if not greater. His real problem is that he has a hard time straight killing, nor does he have the ability to airguard like Meta and characters with better air-control.
I also think you’re confusing raw speed with priority here, the Fucking Furries (Fox/Falco) only had decent priority on most of their attacks, Shine and Lasers notwithstanding. They could be played exceedingly fast with the techs given to us in Melee. Speed can give the illusion of priority(which is a nebulous thing anyway). The only character in that list that had moves that legit beat out an ungodly amount of things was Marth, and that was due to the disjoint hitbox on his sword. In Melee, ridiculous speed more or less = ridiculous priority.
On the Up-B: A Sonic can Meteor Cancel out of the spike, if it’s near ledge the upward hit of the move gives slight protection and the non-recovery move specific auto-sweetspot for a falling character does the rest. Given that, an under-stage spike would be necessary, and it’s difficult for characters to do that.
KMD, Fox and Falco (in Melee) vehemently disagree. Their aerials were some of the most prioritized attacks in the game.
Falco’s Dair, for instance, has so much raw priority, most people can, at best, trade hits. The only real way to go through it is with Disjointed Hitboxes. This is because parts of Falco’s legs are actually invincible during the Dair. Fox’s Dair has a large hitbox and a decent priority as well, but not as much as Falco’s.
Their Nairs and Bairs have a lot priority as well. Ever seen them randomly hit people with Fox and Falco not trading hits when it looks like they should? Priority. Upair as Fox (1st hit) has ridiculous priority. Falco’s has less so.
Dsmash with Falco has his legs invincible during charging. Not sure about when he’s actually smashing (I don’t actually play as Fox or Falco). Some of Fox’s and Falco’s smashes have some of the games’ highest priority, like their Fsmashes and Fox’s Usmash.
In the game, very few games have actual True Priority. True Priority is what happens when two ground attacks come out at the same time. In most cases, the attacks would clank and stop. But not with True Priority attacks! They’ll cancel out the other attacks (if they’re too low on priority) and actually continue and hit the opponent.
That’s right, if you, for example, jab as Peach against Fox’s and Falco’s smashes, Peach’s jab will clank and stop while their smashes still come out and hit her. This holds true for a lot of other lower-prioritized attacks vs. Fox’s and Falco’s smashes as well.
Fox and Falco are priority powerhouses. The only attacks they have that have low priority are Up + B (more priority for Falco) and Over B (crap priority for both as their hitboxes are actually behind Fox and Falco, meaning you can hit them way before their hitboxes are anywhere near you).
Peach and Sheik are priority powerhouses as well. Peach’s Nair, Dashattack, jab, F-tilt, Bair, Dsmash, among other things. Pretty much all of Sheik’s aerials except Dair and to an extent Uair (which has medium priority) + all of her tilts, Dsmash.
Regarding Sonic’s Up B: You cannot meteor cancel indefinitely because of how it works now. At certain %s, there’ll be nothing for Sonic to do but die after getting meteor smashed, even if he meteor cancels since he won’t make it back.
And there’s also the much more obvious options: A simple aerial. Either try to go for a stage-spike (unreliable) or do a Nair/Fair/Bair so that he’ll fly off from the stage again and keep edgeguarding. Because his recovery is almost entirely vertical, he’ll eventually be too far away to make it back.
It’s not the crappiest recovery in the game, but it’s not very good, either.
Sonic is pretty low on the tier list but he’ll probably start getting way higher once we have enough tournaments to align tiers according to tournament records again.
…Are people forgetting about Air dodge or am I missing something here?
Anyway I have something I’m going to post about regarding the Snake vs Sonic match up since I played it against thedamned…Mind you…We were both lagging like hell and we weren’t at 100% but he still kicked my ass lol.
First off I was right in my assumption before about the c4…Sonic doesn’t give 2 shits about the c4 unless it’s planted on him or snake is trying to predict exactly when he’s gonna run over it. With the Side B cancel he can even fake Snake into setting it off accidentally at times. If snake wants to hit him with the C4 he’s going to have to keep him over in that certain area and even then would probably have to set the c4 off at least 1 second in advance in order to catch him unless the setup is perfect. TheDamned is really good with his trapped so I did get blown up a few times…but otherwise I made a mental note of where the c4 was and went about my business.
Snake has a pretty hard time keeping Sonic out…even with the disjointed hit boxes on his attacks. One thing that Sonic players will have to watch out for in his match is for grenades drops…if snake is holding a grenade and trying to either hold onto it or drop it to blow you and him both of…run up and grab him if you can to apply pressure and then do a back throw to toss you and him both away from the explosion. I wasn’t sure if I was able to demonstrate that completely in our match because everytime I attempted…the lag spiked and screwed up my timing. Also since Snake can take more damage than Sonic if he’s holding a grenade be a bit more careful on when you’re deciding to attack him.’
Sonic’s forward b can hop over the proximity mines if spaced properly without fear of them blowing him up…this can be use full in those situations where there’s a mine between you and snake and there’s a nikita headed your way. Sonic can also forward b through a nikita so the snake player will have to drop it prematurely if they know this.
If snake is above you on his cypher…If he’s at the right distance it can be a good idea to up b and possibly surprise kill him with an up air. 2 things to keep in mind while doing that though is that Snake can let go of the cypher when he feels like it and immediately air dodge…also one of the times I actually thought I had caught TheDamned he threw out some type of an attack that traded and sent me out…I’m assuming it was probably his up air…which is why it’s imperative that you space it probably. Sonic has the most priority on his up air near the end of the animation when his feet are pointed straight up. I’ve beaten out Mr. G and W’s key several times with it…but you have to know spacing.
Another thing to watch out for is Snake’s grabbing right just out reaches sonic’s…so if you thought you were close enough to grab him and you wiff…Assume that you’re within his range for a grab and quickly move yourself is the snake you’re fighting grab’s a lot.
Snake has a weak spot behind him since he doesn’t have any attacks that cover both sides…some of his attacks may have hit boxes just barely behind his back but he doesn’t have anything like Ike, or metaknight.
That’s all I have to present right now I believe…
Snake’s bair has tons of range behind him!
It also has lots of lag…when I’m talking about attacks that cover behind him I mean in reference to him being grounded…so I apologize if i wasn’t clear…
Speaking of bair, it’s actually what I hit you with both of times we traded and then you ended up dying off screen.
Thing about Bair isn’t that it has lots of range behind him (it has a bit), but that his whole body is a hitbox. Your Uair would have beaten my attack (and maybe killed me) if it wasn’t for the nutty fact that Snake’s elbow (and face, apparently) can hit people for full power with that attack.
This reminds me, I have to find a new Gamecube controller today, since half of the times I Up-Tilted you, even if it worked, I wasn’t really trying to.
Good analysis by the way, though I would want to point that you have to also watch out for short hop Nikita fakes since they also have killing power and they’re really easy to run into, especially with someone as speedy as Sonic.
so…wait…when I up b’ed after you when you were riding the cypher…that was actually your back air that socked me? lol…I was assuming it was the up air since i went straight up and out.
Yeah I already dknow about sonic running into stuff…that’s what most of the Ike vs. sonic fight is about from what I can tell is Ike just swinging the sword around and hoping that Sonic is unlucky enough to run into one of the swings…besides beating him to death with A,A,A.
Everything that I’ve said in my analysis of the matchup though is based on how we were both reacting to certain situations and handling them…with the lag beating us up and killing us. Lag like the one we had was killer for me because I couldn’t do any reaction setups properly as half the time whenever I attempted we were stuck in a brief pause that either stopped it or didn’t come out at all. I’m hoping we can get another rematch at some point with lag not being such a factor because i’m interested in this matchup. I also would like to say your snake is as dangerous as everyone’s been saying it is lol.
Augh…Wolf…where do I begin on this match up?
I guess I’ll start off by saying in terms of difficulty in handling him…he’s up there with Metaknight. The difference in this being that he actually has a projectile that beats out just about everything sonic does. He can’t even forward b through any of them. At least with Metaknight he has to get at least somewhat close to you but trying to get in on Wolf so far from my experience has been a pain in the ass. The only thing I’ve been able to come up with is perfect shielding the shots and using sonic’s speed to get in afterwords…from there it becomes a guessing game as you have to decide after perfect shielding it whether wolf is going to do a forward smash on your run in or try to block and try to react to what you’re doing. Don’t even think about having an air to air confrontation with wolf…especially if he’s facing you. His claws WILL beat you out.
I’m feeling a bit drowsy at the moment so I need to get some sleep…I think there’s stuff I’m forgetting about in this match up so I’ll try to remember when I make another post. I say this to the other sonic users in here…try this match up with someone and tell me what you think about it…but from my experience at the moment it’s as bad as fighting metaknight, and possibly more frustrating since the laser spam limits sonic from doing the thing he loves most…
I don’t remember having too much problem with this, but then again I’ve figured out the fighting style most Wolf players use so well that I can manipulate them into doing what I want them to do.
oh btw, I got a chance to do the Meta Knight one too. I actually almost won it… and would’ve won it if the last attack connected. He was actually pretty good, and I didn’t feel disadvantaged either. in fact, the only matchup I can recall clearly feeling disadvantaged in is vs Ice Climbers
Did the wolf player spam lasers at you 75 -80% of the match? and did Metaknight spam tornado 80% of the time?