I don’t get how people think SF4 is so balanced. Over the last handful of EVOs (2008-2012), all top tier characters won. Thru Vanilla and Super Ryu was very strong. EVO 2011 Fei Long won. EVO 2012 Akuma won. So, I guess this game has set tiers as well? Please shut the fuck up.
Parrying is the great equalizer in this game. Just look at KOF13. A character like Mr. Karate has one of the greatest air-to-air attacks in the entire game. Him and K’ are the only characters that can AA you with SRK and combo into super for massive damage. So against Mr. Karate if you guess wrong in the air you get nailed so you’re forced to play footsies and if your character sucks at that then you’re SOL. Or look at SF4 with the unblockables, if your character doesn’t have an answer you have to learn 1F blocking (and this is the first time I’ve ever heard of this phrase). Even if you get gdlk at 1F blocking they can still fake you out and have advantage.
These problems just don’t exist in 3S. For the most part.
TC I want you to try something. for the next night you play 3s online, block on your wakeup every time. do not guess, do not go for wakeup 360 (which is better online btw and beats out things it shouldn’t beat out, giving you a false sense that you made a better decision than you did). you can parry on reaction (like if you expect an overhead, you see the overhead startup, and can react in time) but that’s it. no guessing on wakeup, no “great reads” on wakeup either. do not wakeup super. only block on your wakeup.
let us know how it goes or even post replays of how it went. I think it will help you. and also make you realize how much damage you are getting every round out of wakeup guesses and how you need to spend more time working on the neutral game, figuring out how to bait things properly, being patient on defense, and developing a game sense of when you can turn momentum around, know what your options are and when to apply which, etc. there is a lot to learn in this game. and it isn’t the same every time, what works one day against one person might be horrible against someone else or a week later. everything changes and you have to adapt too.
you talk about “the better character will win because of their better options” but you are giving them those options. every time you look for parry on your wakeup and eat a Chun back fierce or low forward into super, you gave that to her. the tier list didn’t beat you, you beat yourself. online masks a lot and wakeup parry doesn’t feel quite as dangerous, wakeup 360 or normal throw feels like a smart move (and hey lag made it work, so cool beans), so I can see why you wouldn’t believe me at first that these are fundamentally wrong ways of approaching the defensive game. you guess right on wakeup, you say “I am so smart and I am a really good player!” and if you guess wrong and eat super you say “well nothing I can do about that, that characters just has better options.” it’s a great mental option select. but things like that are why you are losing to characters that you lose to.
if you watch footage of great players playing offline, you don’t see them parrying out of every bad situation, and you don’t see them parry much on wakeup. the odds are not in your favor and against good players and without lag to save you you will come out on the losing end of those guesses most of the time. watch great Japanese Hugo players, watch how they handle matches against Chun, twins, shotos, etc. there is likely a reason they do everything they do and the faster you can figure out why they do something the faster you can improve.
the people who you find yourself agreeing with and liking their posts, they don’t play this game. think about that and there’s a reason for it. in the world of theory fighter: parry edition the game is broken and Chun/Yun/Ken rapes the entire cast and “between two equal skilled players” (as if that ever existed) bad matchups are a foregone conclusion. they also think parry breaks the game btw so no luck there either. If you want to get good ignore those people and listen to the 3s regulars who play and love this game for what it is. and what it is is a game that isn’t perfectly balanced but is wide open with a lot of options available to everyone. options that let you display if you really are better than the other guy, and figure out how to improve if you aren’t quite yet.
this’ll probably be the last multiple paragraph post I’ll aim at you. give my request a try and see how it goes please. or I guess you can keep liking posts from SF4 players instead if that’s what you would rather do.
I have a feeling we’re being trolled for essays because the sf4 communities have become stagnant and need our posts to think about what to do next.
If that’s the case, y’all are ignant.
I think we take a perverse pleasure in posting in this topic too.
“Only the perverse fantasy can save us.”
Goethe.
I think the game is unbalanced but damn if it isn’t fun as hell.
Looking back at the years I tried in vain to get good at IV (even mained FeiLong) I just wish I spent that energy on this game (just started sometime this year).
I’m not good but still I feel I can say this game rewards creativity and risky plays big time, way more than IV. Fuudo said VF (my main 3D game) is cool since it’s more like playing the player as opposed to the character. I find that to be true with this game as well. Sure, the differences between the characters’ styles is bigger than in VF imo and some have more “effective” styles than others but largely because of parry, players of the same characters can be pretty different.
So yeah, it’s unbalanced but that don’t mean it ain’t the best.
I don’t even like any of the other SF games except for A2. Which I think is mildly good.
And to OP, yeah you can look at those tier matchup #s…and doesn’t it feel great to get those 2, hell maybe 3, 4, and if you’re really on 5 OR MORE wins in a 10 game set? Against that “impossible” matchup?
And those #'s assume equal skill…is there really such a thing?
jongoo make your “Ryu is the best” topic down here, or at least SF3 Ryu character forum not FEI LONG SFIV!
Or wherever you put that one.
KOF13 offers many universal options to the player, so even hop CD pressure by Mr. Karate can be dealt with by the vast majority of the cast. Sorry, I know this is the 3S forum, so KOF13 discussion doesn’t belong here.
3S is unbalanced, but many great fighting games are.
You forget that Karate’s CD is a meaty and will beat a lot of AA’s including SRK moves. Sure you could use a super or EX or just guard cancel but good luck if you don’t have meter. Also no coincidence that Karate has been dominating the game for some time.
AKUMA-HAX, I’m kinda curious what the reaction would be here but nah, I’ll pass lol.
Of course he can use j. CD as a meaty safe-jump, and bait a reversal. I’m just saying there are ways around it. They keeps doing hop CD? Why not try jumping higher than him and beating him air to air that way. If you start beating him air to air that way they may start doing full jumps in which you can anti-air him normally. Karate is obviously top tier, but the game gives you the options to deal with him.
Balance is overrated anyway.
I mean Rockefeller, aka Roku-fera in Japan (roku means 6, and fera is Engrish for fellatio).
1 in the afternoon and you didn’t know where your Snoop Dogg was at?
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One for the Best songs of 2002.
Stuff from the song “What’s Your Fantasy”
-Luda
Freaking Terminator Dander again. Reads, predictions, future talk.
It’s all about date genius, homo-genius!
You quoted a youtube which is worse than quoting image tags!
And didn’t change the youtube to maybe…
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Here, have some stream monsterin with named players
nope.
the specifics are pointless. just knowing some characters are generally stronger and some are generally not as strong is all you really need to know.
I don’t know about anyone else, but Ryo and Robert’s SRKs have enough invincibility that if you timed it right, you could probably beat Karate’s j.CD with it. I could see the timing being tough though.
And I don’t know about the rest of you guys (and maybe this is just because I’m a Remy player and have no balls when it comes to parrying) but I still see blocking as being a better option than parrying, especially if you don’t know what’s happening. I only parry stuff when I pretty much KNOW what they’re gonna do. Maybe there’s something about the game I haven’t figured out yet, but I see a lot of these new players trying to parry everything, eating combos, and I’m like, “You know, characters can block too in this game.” O_o