Yeah , he has the most options ect ect but bottom line is he needs to take A LOT of chances and guesses and hes has ass hp.
Gonna make comparison with Akuma because of the low hp.
He might have more options but hes vortex is not as safe as akumas.He can’t zone as nearly as good as akuma and he can’t play akumas footsies. Pretty much you need to be in you oponets face 80% of the time (again with that helth).
You need your mix ups to work like almost every time and you take a guess on each one.Get 2-3 wrong and you’re fucked.
I know there are few players that do quite well in tornamets with Seth but even they can get blown up like nothing.
As someone said once, you eather perfect with seth or get perfected.
Seths good because he has tons of options but I really don’t find him amazing because of the lack of consistant , solid game plan.
I completely dissagree with people saying hes top 3 or even the best in the game. On paper maybe, you see all these tools ect ect but the reality is you need to take waaay to many chances and got shit hp.
He is only as consistent as the player using Seth. May be you are focusing on one or two aspects of the game/character and basing your opinion off of that. Seth is not the perfect character, but does have quite a few options, and thus he is hard to play. At high level play where the neutral game / footsies are much more important than mixups or vortex, Seth won’t seem so good. His normals just aren’t at the level required for advanced footsies. He’s got some good pokes but overall his normals are lacking.
4 frame c.LP [not 3 frame like Akuma / Cammy]
4 frame c.LK [not 3 frame like Akuma / Cammy]
8 frame fs.MK [not 7 frame like Cammy]
7 frame c.MK [not 6 frames like Cammy or 5 like Akuma]
etc.
He can’t zone all that well with sonic boom as the recovery on it is less than stellar. I can tell you what he does have that other character besides may be Viper has: a mixup after a “blocked” mixup.
Seth lands toe tap juggle in the corner, gets a high / low / left / right / grab / etc mixup afterwards.
Seth goes left and low
Opponent guesses “correctly” left and low
Opponent still has to worry about tick SPD
If you successfully block a Cammy or even an Akuma mixup correctly, you are almost there. You still have to deal with blockstrings / pressure though. Akuma and Cammy can threaten grab but at least that is techable. But against Seth…you’re not, you got another mixup to guess through. Seth doesn’t have it all, but he does have most of it.
You basically identified the problem most people have with placing Seth in their tier lists.
Seth is perfect on paper.
He is not perfect in reality.
People have varying degrees of acceptable human factor, so it’s to be expected. Seth forces almost everyone to play his game to varying degrees, and this works for him more than it does against him at a high level and even more so in a tournament setting.
Did you get that frame data from eventhubs.com or the SRK wiki? The same sites that say it is +4 on hit? Yet we can EASILY link into multiple c.LKs? The Seth handbook however says 4f startup / +3 on block / +6 on hit. That makes a lot more sense.
Not trying to be rude, just real. The next time you look up frame data ESPECIALLY from eventscrubs or the srk wiki, be sure to go into training mode and test it for yourself. Most of the character frame data on both of those sites hasn’t been updated in over a year.
I’m pretty sure it’s 5f start up and +1 on block / +4 on hit. cr.LK, cst.HP is a lot harder than cr.LP, cr.MP and cr.LP, cst.HP. Never seen cr.LK, cst.MP used and cr.LK, SPD is one of Seth’s major tick throws.
It’s chainable, and the window is rather large to do so. I think the only light normal Seth can’t chain from is st.LK and he can still chain into it.
This is the reason why Seth can’t make it the tournament distance. I’ve said it over and over, and I’ll say it again.
There is a reason why there aren’t any good top Seth’s besides poongko. Poongko reads like a i7, and that’s why he can place fairly high in tournaments with some consistency. There really aren’t any other Seth’s that have the chance to get up there. Kindevu played Seth at EVO and quickly switched off after he wanted to stop trolling in pools, and the main reason is exactly what happened to poongko this year:
[media=youtube]Pvt8equAsic[/media]
Solid play will always beat Seth very badly. Akuma and Viper (no disrespect to those characters) have many mixups that are much safer than Seth’s mixups, and that’s why I firmly believe that they have stronger potential to win a tournament as opposed to Seth (and I have mained Viper and Akuma at various points in time for this reason). For example, watch what happens here at 0:55 when poongko reads wrong and does an SPD:
[media=youtube]6bloL-rtuCE[/media]
And there you go from 90% to about 45% in one combo.
projectile
command grab
shoryuken
great crossover
amazing wall jump
teleport
full screen ultra to punish whiffs…
And Seth mainers are still complaining? No matter who people main, they always seem to have it the worst. Try being on the opposite end of a capable Seth instead of being in his shoes; then see how you feel. With tools like that the one thing a good Seth will be is consistent. Consistent in stacking up those wins.
It’s nice to see you guys posting here for the first time. Maybe since you’re educated on Seth enough to post here you can help improve the forum with matchup threads and other useful information
Also Scarlet, you make a good point. With all those tools, why hasn’t Seth won majors yet (other than the fact that poongko is the only Seth that’s really making a splash at all, despite the fact he’s “broken” people refuse to switch to him like they did Yun)
You right. Evenscubs / SRK got me again. I completely overlooked the concept of chainables. Never been one to mash. If I wanted two kick attacks to come out, I will press the button twice.
Nope This character is wonderful. Aside from the normals, this character is leaps and bounds better than who I used to play. If you want a good laugh though, go to the Bison boards. They think they have it bad lol.
Pains me when I see people say Seth is broken (not including you, you know better). Truth is Seth is good, but has some severe flaws. He is not “run away” S tier like Yun was. That character was near flawless. And also extremely easy to play, unlike Seth.
OP said he thinks he is B+/A which is pretty far from having it the worst (I’d put him in A personally…) Don’t even want to go near the logic of “LOOK AT MY SPECIAL MOVES AND MY CROSS UP…” Myself, I like to exploit the weaknesses of Seth when I play a capable Seth, and it usually works out pretty well (I mean, it’s great that everyone thinks they can be Poongko, because it’s <150 damage vs me blocking and doing 220-550!)
Seth is good at guessing games. He has stuff to fall back on when that won’t work. That’s what they wanted with AE/2012. Sometimes you’re gonna get guessed out though, and that’s the cost of playing a character with 800 health and weak fundamentals.
I just find it so funny that everyone decided to hate Seth once poongko came along. it’s especially funny since he’s been nerfed in basically every version of the game since Vanilla, where he was considered B tier.
Thas total horse shit. I find myself atleast twice as consistent with chars like Honda Rufus Blarog and Akuma which I’ve played equally or less then with Seth and even Ruy (whom I’ve played like x100 times less then seth).
Also the way Seths vortex/mix ups work more often then not you have to make a pretty risky guess which can fuck you up good if you are wrong.
Seth is sooo fucking overrated.Hes quite good but not as nearly as good as people make him out to be at high level. Just try him, I dear you. Play him for 2-3 months and lets see how well will you fair.
Part of a good knockdown game is the ability to bait and punish.
Seth has the options to hit you harder than most of cast after a punish and has one of the best if not the best looping knockdowns(aka vortexs).
Knockdowns are in your favour pretty much no matter what( just don’t get hit by reversals, make them respect your ability to bait) and with a character like seth you have a hundred options that can make it so you do guess right.
I don’t think Seth is broke or OP but I do think that he IS the best character in the game.
Knockdown/air reset mixups are very strong in this game and Seth is probably the best at exploiting a knockdown and keeping you knocked down. No matter how you wanna look at it, a knockdown is HEAVILY in Seth’s favor. Odds are good that you’re coming away from a mixup taking at least some damage, worst case you take a lot of it and are stunned. If you want to try to break it down with the number of options he has top open a character up, he probably has the best odds of hurting a knocked down character than anyone else. dat vortex
Some of those options are risky tho and you lose half your life for guessing wrong. But just some. You thought you were gonna bare no-meter SRK someone to blow up there crouch tech, neutral jump, counter-DP, whatever buttons. You got blocked? You’re fucked. You went for SPD and they neutral jumped? Fucked.
But you don’t HAVE to play Seth so balls-out risky like you’re poongko. Weigh your risk/reward. If you make people want to jump to avoid SPD, that’s good, it lets you work your frame trap game and get free combos. Don’t have to DP to counter things either. You can play a conservative Seth game and do a lot of safe jumps and regular mixups. Save the random shit for when you wanna get a little crazy.
But yea like someone said earlier, Seth lacks in fundamentals. I don’t think his footise/neutral game is bad, but isn’t as good as like peeps like Ryu and Chun. His fireballs suck his normals aren’t excellent (except that 4f close fierce) but he still has decent pokes and CAN outplay people in footsies. Decent keepaway and midrange game. His whole game there is just decent. And he more than makes up for it with his knockdown/inside game. Play footsies until he get in or knocks down and then Seth can fuck. He has one of the best comeback factors in the game cuz all he needs is that one knockdown and two or three good guesses to close it out.
tldr; he’s as risky and consistent as the person playing him
About that tier list stuff and Poongko being the only relevant Seth… besides that not being true, don’t tier lists measure the highest level of play? The tiers don’t rank decent/mid-level play, they’re ranking a character exploited to its fullest. If only one Seth in the world was winning that still counts. When you make a tier list/match up chart, you SHOULD assume that the Seth player is Poongko.
If Seth was a weapon, he would be that big fucking spiked ball that Gogo Yubari uses on kill bill.
Yeah. It looks cool and can really fuck you up if you don’t play correctly. But the second you use fundamentals and play solid. (Like a sword) You win.
