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I hate to sound like I’m plugging but this is just f’ed up, seriously. You can go from zero to threat in less than a day. Anything that takes months and years of grinding is just given to you if you use this stick. This is borderline cheating imo. While I wouldn’t mind using this online I would be a bit embarrassed to go to a tournament with this thing.
I don’t like the looks of that simultaneous opposing cardinal directions stuff, seems to take it from simply another way to input into an artificial enhancement like turbo buttons which is not cool.
I don’t have a problem with anything else about it, but something thats physically impossible on another controller (pressing both directions at once) does seem a bit whack.
:eek: Funny enough, this is how some people (seriously) compare the relationship between stick and pad.
To be honest, it is what it is. It’s a tool and it might make you more effective much faster, but you still have to apply smarts. If backdashing were all you needed to do well, I’d have a much higher win record, LOL.
The difference there though is that everything that is physically possible on stick is also pysically possible on pad, when an outside prephiral allows you to do something the console version pads or arcade version sticks don’t allow that seems a bit wrong, like in the realms of turbo buttons and lag switchs wrong.
If the game just did the opposite cardinal directions horizontally in a “one always overrides the other one” like it does vertically then there wouldn’t be an issue since it wouldn’t be able to do anything the other control options can’t, it’d just be another tool, but as it is now, it may need some thinking about.
Well legit hitboxes are supposed to restrict SOCDs. So there’s another can of worms being opened if someone’s isn’t.
Sent from a phone, using an app that I purchased from an App Store, that appends this signature above my signature to make me look superior in social status to everyone else.
Oh that’s good then, got no problem with legit ones then, guess the issue goes more to how to educate people making their own to and how to restrict them as well and how to make sure a hitbox someone says has restricted SOCDs has restricted SOCDs, I assume the latter part will be done however it is currently done for making sure sticks don’t have turboed buttons.
Thanks for the info.
Well Toodles has a SOCD restriction PCB for sale that’s really simple to install, PS360+ restricts them by default.
Sent from a phone, using an app that I purchased from an App Store, that appends this signature above my signature to make me look superior in social status to everyone else.
I think the situation is a bit more sinister… You can brainlessly do a perfect backdash where you are vulnerable for only 2 frames. The implication of that in itself is staggering. Just being able to do this properly puts you ahead of practically everyone. I can give a person the best stick or pad and 10 years to practice but they will never be able to attain the kind of flawless perfect backdash a person can easily do on a hitbox on day 1 that utilizes SOCD’s. It’s not just being able to space out your opponent that is important here but how vulnerable you are during your movement.
:eek: I mean, I suppose you guys are on to something. I’m probably too lazy to care, LOL.
Actually, when this game came out, I was wondering if anybody was going to explore just frame techniques with the Hitbox, like EWGF and the like. Still haven’t gotten to watch the first video, but it seems like people have been playing around with it from the looks of things. Maybe the first sincerely amazing Mishima from the US will originate from the Hitbox movement?! 
Just because you get awesome SOCD tech doesn’t magically make you win. 
You still have to learn the Hit Box, you still have to learn Tekken, and you still have to beat your opponent.
Here’s how SOCD’s work on Hit Box:
+:f:=Neutral
:d:+:u:=:u:
Official Hit Boxes manually restrict that condition in the hardware. Without SOCD control the behavior of holding opposite cardinals isn’t very consistent and does risk possible programming oversights, but vanilla MvC3 was the only real issue (which was quickly fixed in UMvC3).
Unofficial all-button controllers without SOCD control are actually nerfed, because they miss out on SOCD applications like safer KBD’s.
There’s nothing sinister about SOCD’s though; it’s just a simple input priority system. In the hardware of official Hit Boxes, nothing registers as two buttons being held at once. L+R is the same as letting go of a joystick/pad, and D+U is the same as just pressing up. So there’s no ‘impossible’ conditions. Hit Box is just a smart interface.
The concern I think you have for SOCD’s is the fairness. It’s too easy; right? That all comes down to your own philosophy of fairness. If you think Bob is top tier, you should probably learn Bob. Playing Bob doesn’t make you win every match though, it just means you’re comfortable with his skill set representing you. Same thing with your controller.
If no conditions are impossible, we are still very close or even in the same territory as controllers with a turbo function turned on and programmable controllers here.
You could apply the exact same argument you are applying in defense of the hitbox to either of them, but would you want to see them used in tournaments ect? I sure as hell know I don’t.
:eek: Iduno, I think Brian’s talking about your suggestion of what would be an impossible situation instead of implying that you can do anything you want to with a HitBox.
“Pads are cheating. You get extra buttons you can use for macros”
“Hitbox is cheating. Pressing buttons are easier than moving a stick.”
Anything like blocking both ways when holding left and right is programming errors on the game’s end.
Turbo/Macros are illegal because they play the game for you, IE., press one button get many. You input everything manually on HB. How does that compare?
I’m getting your points but am still more than a little cautious on the whole issue, I can’t see there being much of a problem with the hitbox in 2D games as long as we don’t get vanilla MvC3 derpy blocking with it again, but this seems to just remove some particularly important execution requirements in Tekken and I’m not sure how this will effect the game.
That easy backdash cancel and ewgf from the left side may not be entirely done for you, but it seems to be getting really close.
That said I’m willing to wait and see how it pans out, but it does seem like the only thing stopping it from being “buy a hitbox or don’t bother” is the hitboxes relative obscurity atm.
Every time this comes up, I just say “Blame the companies.”. 1) for not making use of defensive coding. 2) for not designing games better. With a proper buffer and input system, with the necessary risk/reward system.
Counter argument for my 1st point. There is no way a developer could imagine something like this could happen. Very true, but then point 2 > counter arguement.
It will affect the game positively and bring more tournament players for TTT2. If execution is the thing holding people back from getting involved with their scene, why reprimand them because they’re on a Hit Box when they finally DO show up?
More players, more comp, more growth as a community.
:eek: And more electrics! Can you imagine the West having competitive Mishimas?! I’m getting excited just typing about it!
So competitive that when they go overseas and have to play in arcade they’ll be unable to do anything >_<
Tekken Crash let USA players bring their own sticks with their liking… Well, koreans prevailed anyway…
Asians are hospitable enough to adjust for it… They know we’ll need all the advantage we can get just to keep up with them. 