Ironman in depth

IM vs MSP

I’m sure alot of people thought IM beats MSP because he fights decently against Mags…but i like you have a tough time against it. I actually switch to IM/Sent/Cyc for this one, but i’ll try my best to help u out.

MSP is going to be tough because Mags has psy, limiting your air-to-ground game, and IM is slow ground-to-ground so Mags will have an easy time getting in close. He also has Storm as his backup, and a metered Storm w/ the lead, beats IM. What you wanna do, of course, is make it as hard as possible for Mag to get in…and as easy it is for you, to know where he’s going, so can attack him, and hopefully get him into inf. Dont bother chipping Mags too much with IM, unless you’re 100% sure you wont get punished, because Mags is too fast for your unibeam. He can even Erm disruptor u before ur beam comes out. If you need to chip, use Doom.

Take it to the air. Mags cant hurt you much at the top of the screen. SJ, AIRDASH UP, SB, and drop with your bombs. Mags cant really punish, and he’ll have a hard time crossing you up w/ Psy because of the bombs. From there, it’ll give u an opportunity to see where he’s going to attack you from, or give you the option of adding more shit on the screen…u can then…

  1. You can call doom, and repeat the SB sequence, to add some chip. Doom will be vulnerable, but so will mag if he tries to attack him. Just watch out for Psy. It’s going to be a “chance” attacking him, but theres not much IM can do safely. Hopefully, your SBs will cover you, or cover space for Doom, allowing enough time for the rocks to come out.

If he calls Storm, hopefully the SBs will hit her, giving you enough time to drop on him without the fear of Psy.

If he tries to avoid Doom and go after you with a SJ, Kneedive down and use a mixup game while he’s trying to land (in fact, this is what you want. it’s the safest way of getting in on him. try to force him into the air and attack him when he can’t use psy). Or attack him in the air where u can use ur fierces, shorts, and jabs.

  1. Dash back, and throw a ground missle+doom. If u get a missle out, it’ll force Mag to attack you from the air…or block the missle while getting some chip. If he “regular jump” x airdashes fwds, Cancel into Flight and use the range of an aerial fierce…it’ll beat out any normal he tries. He can still use Psy but he would have to call her further away, before he gets hit. If u anticipate Psy, unfly and attack him without her. If you anticipate wrong, unfly, and take it back to the skies, and try again. If he calls storm before the airdash he’s going to be verrry vulnerable, unfly, and mixup

if he “SJ x ad fwd”, he wont even be able to use psy. unfly and attack/mix him up before he lands.

If he SJs to avoid everything, mix him up again as he’s coming down.

  1. While in the air, u can also knee x ad, call Doom. It helps because Mag cant call an assist during SJ…giving u the edge of having an assist w/out the fear of counter assist Psy. Having Doom out will give u time/options, which is what you need to stay alive in this match. Watch out because U cannot block coming down, in that case, try dropping towards Dooms rocks to cover u. Use flymode to drop down faster.

----These are just somethings you can do with IM that i wanted to point out directly against MSP. Alot of things i said about Sent (“know your IM and matchups”) applies the same to this. I just pointed these scenarios out because u should really try to limit Mags coming towards you with Psy, and u need to find ways to attack Mags safely ground level, and setup ur own offense. If you find urself in a bad sistuation (getting crossed up) or if mags is just rushing your ass down, there’s not much IM can do if he’s in your face. IM is too slow to do anything safe ground lvl. Standing fierce is defensive but slow, jabs and shorts - mags’ cr short is too fast, IM’s launcher can avoid lows; but it has really short horizontal distance…use it at ur own risk. Keep unfly mode to cancel ur slower attacks safely so u can block. But dont try to block too much or you’ll find yourself getting mixed up. Instead, move, run, hide behind doom and let him absorb the damage…just dont let him gain momentum. Cable’s AAA can help somewhat. It can help stop Mags dashing in with cr shorts, it can help against his quicker triangle jumps, it can help somewhat - if he tries to jump x ad w/ an assist (that trick is a pain). If he triangle jumps high, use that opportunity to sneak in a launch, or mixup up by dashing under.

Just remember if u can consistently keep crap on the screen, u’ll make it harder for Mags, and u’ll know when/where to attack. In short, take it to the skies w/ SBs to stay safe from mags/psy. play really safe ground lvl, and force him to jump. Do your damage by assists, long range, and defensive mixups. Anticipate.

A bigger problem in that team is Storm. She can really limit ur ground options, and she can limit you in the air because of Hailstorm. With IM, u cant really setup an offense, u just to fight her head on. Make her burn meter by using her hailstorms. If she has no meter, use that opportunity to pin her down with SBs and doom. If she tries to run/fly away, use IMs fierce range to slow her down. Use Cable AAA to slow her down in the air as well.

If your IM built 5 meters, and u see Mags/Storm SJing away, u may want to tag in Cable. Cable with IM AAA can really help against rushdown because of the zone. Like i said, u can really maneuver with Cable once IM is called out. Use that time wisely. The only sure way to stop IM AAA is if u hit him before he comes out (sometimes they’ll get lucky with a trijump, but most times they’ll eat the AAA). Use Rocks too, because a 1 random rock can lead to a dead character. Dont be afraid to burn meter to keep momentum.

^And like every match in this game, watch for the double snap back…

i actually like IM vs. MSP. if you have a good assist like drones/rocks/good projectile IM can actually zone pretty decent. just keep SJing to smart bombs+assist. theres not too much mags can do in the air besides DHC to storm. just make sure you stay at a height thats impossible/difficult for mags to ROM you with and attack when they make mistakes. its funny, this is one of the actual match ups where i can damn near zone the entire time (still wouldnt recommend it), you’ll get caught with a couple DHC’s to hailstorm but tell you the truth i’d rather have them burn that meter on such little damage. just play it safe, who cares if they get you with a couple combos. all you need is one touch for a sure kill.

[quote="‘SuprioR’-TCH, post:54, topic:19502"]

I think your IM is pretty good, except that you rely too much on SJing and getting into an air battle. It seems like that you really like the lk hit confirm, and although it’s a pretty good trick, it’s nothing too dominating, and nothing to base your offense. You don’t really gain momentum and it gets really predictable. I think you need to touch up on more basics, because it seems like you want to SJ any chance you get to setup youself up for that lk attack.

IM is pretty slow so you want to pick your spots when/where you want to attack. You cant just randomly SJ. Try waiting it out for a bit and figure out how your opoonent is trying to attack you. Drop doom and see where he goes. If he uses an AAA and wants to damage Doom, use IM as a 1-on-1 character and . FIGHT IT OUT. If he doesnt followup, attack his assist. Basic stuff.

/QUOTE]

Yeah… Too bad IronMan sucks! I watched some of those matches and KK was doing absolutely everything right with IronMan. I spam sj lk because it’s too good and it beats out just about every move except like storms sj lk and thats only if she attacks at the right angle. Now I want to see you play rushdown IM and lets see how well you can FIGHT IT OUT while sent is beaming smacking the fuck out of you. My advise to KK is to disregard a lot of the information here especailly ppl trying to tell you how to play game, it may look and sound good but most of it is just a bunch of blah blah theory shit and from what I saw you were winning with your tactical sjing and such, so just play your game and only trust information that comes from a creditable source.

The only thing I have to say to you KK is that you need to finish your combos especially air combos down to normal jump infinite those chances are rare and it is important to make your opponent fear air to air combat against IM and that is a devsatating way to do so but for the most part you need to stop relying on Doom assist so much, I saw you hit someone with lk,lp and then you launched them, My advise to you is to go for the crouch cancle setup instead of the other one, I know the other one does more damage but who cares, IM infinite into PC does 90% percent anyways thats why you do your damage and wait for your opponent to make the mistake. Tell me why don’t most of the guys who play that team use cable assist in stead of Doom, you can do lk,lp+cable into infinite=dead, so easy. Seriously I’d say drop Doom and pickup Sent. Nothing personal, but I think that most of the ppl who play IM with Doom assist aren’t really that good with IM, don’t get me wrong, most of the guys are good with their team but when Doom is gone they look lost with IM thats just what I’ve notice with some players.

lol no offense, but you just told him to stop listening to people telling him how to play the game, and then you tell him how to play the game?

[quote=“BucketHead”]

heheh, funny guy here. Discredit info just because he hasnt seen anyone use it? No wonder why you give up on certain characters. And KK ASKED advice from everyone here…doesnt matter who it’s from. He seemed pleased to what he read, and i’m pretty sure it’s because he UNDERSTOOD it, unlike closed-minded players like you. No biggy though, u can stick with your “tactical SJing” and spam lks, and get smacked around by frying pans and shorts…while getting beamed up by Sent…doesn’t matter to me, i dont really care who you are. But i’m here to DISCUSS IM with players that want to discuss IM.

I’m very confident with my IM, and to my credit…i have done very well against certain big name players. I am not a weekly tourney player, but i know some pretty good ones - all who have played me/seen me play, and credited my IM…surprised at what they didn’t know IM can do. Dont like to name names to credit myself…but if u think i’m not forreal KK (or anyone else thinkin my strats r jus theory bs), ill let you know.

And if you think any IM that plays w/ Doom isn’t that good, and will totally lose the match after he’s dead…i’m here in NJ/NY/Philly area. I’d like for you to show me what kind of IM is good, assuming that you think your’s is.

I’ll say this, It’s good to spout off tactics and match ups that you have experienced but it’s another thing to attempt to categorize teams, for example think of MSP, some people might have alot of experience against this team and have the ability to do well vs this team, but don’t think for a second that you can sum up how to beat a team in acouple of paragraphs, true there are Universal tactics that are used to deafeat teams like these but the fact of the matter is that there are so many MSP players and so many different teams and I dought that they all play the same which means, not only are you playing against the team you also have to figure out how your opp plays the team. It doesn’t matter if you play against Yipes or Justin everyday or anyone really good with a certain team.
What happens when you play a random MSP player who beasts you because your not use to the way he plays or you say thats not the way your suppose to play that team. Just because you beat your lil brother or your homeboys who play a certain way doesn’t mean you have it all figured out. So if your going to give out strats let it be known that the information comes from within your own jurisdiction meaning the competition that you play daily or play styles you have experienced and don’t just go off saying things like, this is how you beat team . Just say this is what the ppl I play against do and this is what I do to fight it. To me personally Marvel is game where standarized tactics only aplly to a certain degree. Thats why I don’t believe in page long strategy guides on how to fight teams, to me it seems like it’s setting ppl up for failure. I don’t give advice on things like that because the information is too broad, I say let ppl obtain there own original way of playing and give them more useful information like combos, gaurd breaks, gaurd cancles…etc Because the other stuff is like teaching a grown man how to walk and thats not my job and thats just how marvel is, the more you play and the experience you get then you will be able to determine what you can and can’t do against certain chars. You should be able to determine what your success/failure ratio is against certain teams. It’s pretty basic, Darwins theory, Survival of the fittest applies in marvel also. Either you get better or you get worst there is no inbetween when it comes to marvel it’s up to you to decide.

It sux that u feel that way, but this is a forum. People are here to learn and to teach. And yes, you can teach someone how to beat a team. It’s why people record matches, it’s why people discuss here on boards, it’s why there are top tiers, it’s why people learn matchups, it’s why people learn and get better, and it’s why people play the game. Sure, it’s not 100% foolprood…but no1 plays a perfect game everytime.

Of course everyone plays a different style, but there are certain styles that aren’t effective as others, and there are styles that can make a character better. It’s like using Storm for only building meter and Hailstorming…sure u can do it for a good part of the match, but if u dont know how to effectively rushdown, and bait…that Hailstorm wont become as much of threat, as if u were able to rushdown effectively. There is momentum is this game, and there are ways to pressure your opponent, to know anticipate what he’s going to do next…and of course there are ways to capitalize on it. Sure IM got air combos that lead to ground inf from sj lk…but how’s he going to protect himself coming down. Doesnt matter what your playstyle is, if your opponent knows he’s coming down…and he has an effective attack against it, your going to have to block or get hit. Certain characters DO have strengths and weaknesses.

If you read and understood what i wrote above, you’d also know that i stressed alot of things are situational dependent, and that some things aren’t going to work well as others. I am just merely pointing out what IM can do to counter certain offenses, and different scenarios. And if you dont think theres NO 2 people that use a same/similar certain tactic…then how do explain people using popular teams like Santhrax, and MSP??? If you got any other ways to explain how IM can handle certain matches, i’m pretty sure we’re all for it. But i’m also pretty sure no1 wants to hear you’re whining about how people shouldnt be giving advice, how IM sux, you being able to determine success/failure ratios, or Darwin’s theory.

BucketHead, aren’t you the guy who said he had the best IM a while back?

like i said before im an east coast iron man and ill i fucking play all day is rediculous sentinels and there are alot of things you can do against a sent whos just flying back you just need patience depending on the match up your playing. the one thing you have to make sure to do against sent is once you land a hit in the air regardless of unfly or not cause flying screen or bring him down to the ground and keep him grounded there are many pressure strings IM has if you attack and counter call with smarts. ima put up videos soon when i get someone to put em up of this matchup its hard but iron mans too godly.

U play at CTF? im mite be goin there this weekend. i wanna see how u play IM.

I’ve never said I was the best, only thing I said that alot of ppl don’t know about IM but I guess thats why these forums are here to teach and what not. It seems that ppl take things a little too serious on srk. But it’s cool. fun fun fun!

yup just pm me when you goin and youll see me there everyone knows me as 360 or just josh.

No Lie i would <3 to have some mad IM matches with yall haha. Shit would be sick!!

But the posts tho you dukes have some good ass IM strats and Combos. Keep it up

yipes and smoothviper are always tellin me about how your IM is on the next level. been wanting to see it in action for a while.

Yeah…so I got a little bored and decided to post some vids of OG Japan. Enjoy!

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The first 4 are the matches that SRK hosted back in 2001-2002…which showcased the SJC set-up off of c.mp for the first time (for some reason, I wanna say there were more of’em…but I can’t remember). The rest are from later in 2001-2002.

More vids to come…as well as an updated version of my guide…and my opinion on character/team match-ups.

Hope that helps.

  • Geronimo

EDIT: Added 3 Mitsu matches.

a short combo movie i made, mostly INF setups with assists. [media=youtube]jz-fgMlTmGA[/media]

nice, i’m trying to make an IM vid with shit nobodies seen. hopefully i’ll have it done soon

tech, are you going to the fairfield tourney this sunday???i am going to try and make it. So, i was curious if you would be there as well, maybe we can get some games in. peace

yea i’ll probably make it out to this one. i don’t know about entering cuz i hate tilts sticks. even though this is my home arcade, i play like a retard anytime im on those damn sticks.