thanks by the way. I used a lot of your advice so far, you’ve been a great help
i’m not exactly sure what you’re talking about. could you link to the post.
you don’t press lp right away after the air dash, you wait a bit. regardless, it should still connect even if you cancel too soon
its difficult but arguably the most effective guard break he has. its like inescapable.
The way I figure it, the better the guard break, the more hits you have to do in order to perform it. That way it doesn’t matter if they push block or not because you keep them pinned long enough to get guard broken either way.
Like magnetos guardbreak on sentinel. (this is how i do it, other people do it differently)
Sentinel at highest point of come in:
sj.lk, hk xx ADF, d+lk, lp, slight delay, d+lk, mp, mk
Timing might be a bit tricky at first, but once you get it down consistently and correctly then there is practically no escape. He might be able to super, but either way he is still completely open and vulnerable if he does.
Why can’t I do c.lp, c.mp, lp unibeam into infinite in the new version? PLEASE tell me they didn’t take it out and I’m just hella rusty (which I am but it wasn’t a hatrd thing to do). Also it seems like his standing firecr juggles just bring them straight back to the groung:confused:
HELP
Yeah, I finally got it this morning. It seems a little difficult to do consistently but I’ll try getting it.
Can any of you guys lend me any more advice on using ComboFiend as a team? Iron man is my weakest on point so far, and he only does well for me when I substitute Sentinel for Psylocke (I think I get spoiled by how easy she makes my offense).
but anyways, I have this combo down with Mag
c.lk, c.hp, /\ , sj.hk, AD-DF, sj.lk, sj.lk, /, j.lk+call ironman, j.hp XX tempest
Are there any other combos I should learn that can combine with assists with the other characters? Should I switch out Sentinel ground for Projectile? Thanks again!:wgrin:
nevermind I just caught the Iron Man in depth thread, I’ll just read that for the next hour or so…:wgrin:
Anyone use Magneto/IronMan/Cable? I like the fast assist and meter usage Cable provides. Other than that, the DHC game and teamwork isn’t so solid. Definitely not best against Magneto based teams, as it gets wiped out fairly easily. I find it more useful against santhrax/scrub type of teams, though. Thoughts?
hey, some of the info in the main post might be a bit out dated. Still useful especially if you’re just learning, but Ironman has still progressed since then. However the posts and replies in the thread are still quite useful.
I plan on making a version2 of the thread in a few days. It should be much more informative.
nice, will look forward to that tech.
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tech… that guard break does seem like the most complex but I don’t think its 100% inescapable… in fact… i know i’ve gotten outta it a few times… and I’ve seen better players get out of it as well… “J+HP / sj.lp, adu/f, lp, U+HP xx f.lp+magneto, neutral hp xx unfly, magneto hits / infinite”… pretty sure people with short enough guard stiffness can pushblock the first hit and then let the sj.lp connect… it doesn’t pop you up enough nor are you held in block stun… and you’ll fall out of it… people with to long of g.stiffness can’t get out of their own push block in time… but have a buddy play cable and try it… bet he can get out sometimes… this won’t work against the standard guard break the same way tho… so I still think its a bit of mixup on which you use… not that most players would ever be able to get out of it…
i’m not exactly sure what you mean by guard stiffness?
if the sj.lp connects, they’re not getting out of it because it combos. The entire process is one entire combo with no holes, so if ANY attack connects, the entire thing will connect.
I dont know if I understand what you’re trying to say lol.
Also push blocking seems to be the guaranteed way to get hit by it. You’re giving up your only action when you pushblock. By the time your pushblock ends, ironman is still doing the guard break and you get broken for sure.
You might be able to mash a super (must be instant), but thats it.
I’m positive that whether you push block or not, if you don’t do anythign you’re absolutely getting hit by it.
Maybe you weren’t playing against somebody who was doing that guard break, or doing it correctly. If the opponent is simply “dropping” and not doing anything, then the Ironman was doing it wrong
i sorta agree…I don’t feel it’s 100% but not for the reasons you stated. sj.lp on hit will still allow the rest to combo into inf. unless you meant something else?
what can be done, and pushblocking isn’t really necessary, is to block, wait a sec (mash on lol) and psyblade/AHVB/tempest. you can try pushblocking and inbetween hits do the same stuff too. I have always felt it’s sort of a mixup against the players that do this (the people I play against all the time lol)
you can nj upFP, wait, launch cable…but he can DHC unless he’s the last. you can wait for psyblade and then launch…but they can call assist while psyblading to stop attempts (again if they have it), can’t seem to do much against MT except change timing.
I was talking with j360 about this, he said just nj GB should work…I haven’t tested really, but I believe these things will still hit (infact, IIRC, they were hitting me which is why I tried the SJ setup…) hmmm…it just sucks that not a lot of players try these things, just sorta try to mash or just PB and then randomly mash or something…but yeah
yea i dont know if its 100%, but you would need some type of instant/invincible anti air or MAYBE an instant super.
Either way, the timing is strict and against certain teams and characters can be inescapable.
As for the character simply dropping? Im pretty sure not, as long as ironman doesnt mess up
the timing for getting out with cable and psy is actually not that strict imo.
but yeah, storm/commando ain’t getting out. it can be trickier to GB sent, but he can’t really get out if you do it correctly.
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G.stiffness… in this case reference to how long it takes someone to stop push blocking once they start… people fast enough will leave you pretty far out after the u+hp and with hardly a frame to spare in terms of IM’s error margin for the combo… even if IM can foil EVERY character push block by altering his timing… forcing him to alter that timing might be one of the reasons people end up getting out of it using this method…
The lp should still allow it to connect… but tech’s combo includes ad/uf after the lp… so in theory… if you commit to that combo… seems like you’d lose them if they pushblock the u+hp and then let the lp connect as you xx ad/up… there’s nothing holding em in the air and b/c of the pushblock… they should be out of lk range on the follow up and to high to lp again… guess they could df+hp… but thats not gonna combo out the same… this is g.stiffness AND character size dependent as far as I know… again… even if IM can properly can foil this as well by timing… that’s twice in one combo you made him change it up on the fly… every chance IM gets to fuck up… is a chance you may get out…
Guess my major point is that no matter what IM does or doesn’t do… he can never know what a skilled opponent will be doing to try and foil him… and that alone provides mixup to get out of it…
in theory they could anticipate this and call their assist early and it would catch you… but that’s chess match stuff that plays out differently from attempt to attempt… or so it seems for me.
All this being said AS ironman I normally just go for the standard gb…
Here’s a question as well… something I can’t imagine why I haven’t tried at this point… but can you pushblock and xx ad/up (with applicable char)? Never tried to air ash outta a push block in this type of situation as far as I know…
I’m sorry but I still don’t completely understand what you’re trying to say, can you be exactly specific? ie
IM jumps and does U+HP
Cable Push Blocks
IM sj.LP
Cables push block ends
Guardbreak is droppped here
Sorry, I just want to understand the guardbreak but I’m not so sure if I understand what you’re saying.
But Im still almost positive that if the opponent doesn’t do ANY attack, pushblocking okay, that theyre going to get hit anyway.
hard to understand what you’re saying…but regardless…NO. if IM executes right and you don’t try to press anything after pushblocking, you will get into the inf. also, assists will not save you.
Madtitan, can you even do this guard break? It seems like you’re confused on how it works. Either that, or nobody can understand what you’re explaining.
After the initial U+HP, you don’t wait, you don’t alter your timing. You sj.lp as fast as possible. If that lp LANDS, the entire guard break lands.
You’re saying that after the lp, when you adup, that its going to whiff?? It doesnt. Ever. Unless you fuck up. Its an immediate dash in to LP. No delay.
It doesnt matter if they push block, if they get hit, or block your attack. You continue with the entire guard break the same way as if you were comboing.
I’ve done the guard break enough to know that if your opponent just blocks, he gets hit. if your opponent push blocks, he gets hit. If an opponent mashes on normals, he gets hit…
The only thing I’m not sure about is mashing super, or mashing assist.
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Let me simplify in hopes that we can come to some sort of consensus here. I think we are merely varying scenarios…
I used cable in the scenario but lets make it easier so we go frame by frame… so we’ll use cyke who (according to the srk wiki) is only in guard stiffness for 4 frames…
If cyke push blocks the u+hp… IM has 4 frames until cyke is outta gaurd stiffness and can adf, lp, continue… that an “easy” margin to adf in and connect a move? 4 frames? No. Impossible tho… no… just makes it harder on IM… this is also dependent on how “deep” IM is when he connects the u+hp… its not hard to get deep… but you can fully escape it using push block if they are slightly out of position. If IM is OFF and doesn’t make it there until 5+ frames later… can’t cyke already be sticking out a poke?
also…
In tech’s example the air dash is ad/uf and it’s AFTER the lp… not before… if you spend yer air dash getting back in to keep the guardbreak going after the pushblock… how can you spend it to ad/uf and keep that combo going… you can’t… so really… instead of 1 guardbreak what IM REALLY has is an option tree for a gb… that defeats various different escape attempts on each branch… I do not believe there is a one shot 100% gb that works on all character sizes and guardstiffness times…
So my point is while IM can have almost 100% chance to gb… its not 100% b/c they can make IM alter what he has to do more than once during the attempt. Not to say some of you aren’t insanely slick with IM… but it’s not easy to break out of BnB on the fly… with little margin for error… really its about mixup… if IM has to adf, lp to get me with a gb this time b/c I pushblocked… next time when I don’t pushblock will he know what to expect? whether his air dash should be right away or after the lp? Nope… he won’t he’ll have to try one or the other and hope his opponent was/wasn’t doing the one he needed. Mixup…
Not trying to fight you guys here… I just swear I’m speaking pf what my eyes have seen… if you want to test it out… I’d happily take turns snapping each other out in friendlies and trying not only various gbs… but different situational stuff to get out of it…
are you on ps3?
I don’t pay attention to frame data much, but 4 frames seems ridiculously fast. Thats a fraction of a second. He would basically be out of his pushblock the moment he push blocks. Are you sure the 4 frames isnt regarding how long it takes for it to actuallllly push the opponent away?
What I do know, is if im mags and tri-hk somebody and they push block, I pretty much have enough time to dash back up to them. If I have time to dash back to the opponent, Ironman has enough time to jump back up with a sj.lp
Another example, it doesn’t matter who you are (besides big characters), but if you want to super jump out of a hyper sent force, you push block the projectile/attack RIGHT before the super hits. Particularly when the first set of drones passes the timer.
So say you’re cyke. You push block right before the first wave of drones makes contact with you. If you test this, just like everybody else, he will not be able to move until AFTER the 2nd set of drones. So he push blocks, first set of drones hit, 2nd set of drones hit, then you jump out between the 2nd/3rd wave.
Its physically and graphically impossible for it to only be 4 frames between the push block and the 2/3rd set of drones.
Now what you’re saying makes sense, but I just don’t think the numbers are right. 4 frames is probably the startup and not the duration. If it was duration, then pushblocks would make you recover faster than just blocking.