I’m on finding out whatever won’t get you dashed under and punished with Iron Man.
He’s really what more of the characters should have been…needing to actually learn hit confirms and stuff.
spam regular jump instant ADB or ADDB neutral H. weak to slides and projectiles but strong as hell to dash ins and instant airdashes. spam long range helper while doing it.
-dime
The man did good last night. The man did good.
Alukard has a very good IM. It is amazing how well he did with him without landing any combos. Those random hits via zoning adds up to a lot of damage.
I usually throw air smart bombs a lot and C.H until there is an open. Made a few people quit to iron man with this (noob) tactic.
http://www.twitch.tv/boomgorillas/b/306897469?t=59m30s While most of this is just being flashy, I think the airdash down on incoming characters punishes a lot of bullshit people will try to throw at you, ignore everything after i miss iron avengers ;_;.
Wow, nice TAC combo! I like to know the notation for it though.
I’m making a video that should be out really soon with tons of TAC combos and notation for my team with some other stuff thrown in there.
That was a hot combo :tup:
I’m wondering if you can do the same thing you can do with Iron Man that Marlin Pie does with Doom where if you hit someone with a forward TAC you can ADDF behind them and start a combo even if they’re in the corner. Iron Man’s air dash is obviously slower than Doom’s but I wonder.
In general I’d like to see if he has any forward tag stuff towards the corner into Iron Man.
You indeed can, it will be included, every direction for every character on my team.
i’m really glad you made this thread DJ. since its title is pressure SPACING and mixups it covers a broad range of things. i’m going to go ahead and post a repository of IM’s movement options as i see them… basically an in depth study of all of IM’s 8 air dashes and the best options from them. i really feel as if this is where IM shines most from other airdash characters… he basically has NEUTRAL GAME MIXUPS based on not only which airdash he chooses to use but what move he chooses to use. anyway on to the airdashes:
note that all of these airdashes ARE INSTANT AIRDASHES NOT SUPERJUMP AIRDASHES (unless it specifically says superjump)
1.ADF
what its good for: when attacking with ADF m its GREAT against nemesis,sent and hulk since they cant duck under it unlike most characters… so if you arent using boxjump m against them yet… you might want to… just watch out for obvious things like armored normals of course… use with discretion… but it IS GOOD… dont sleep.
ADF S: what its good for: getting in… its basically IM’s best get in move starting from the ground… if you KNOW your opponent will be on the ground call a fast long beam helper like arthur or mags or hawkeye… this is free pressure. once your opponent gets used to blocking this high or in the air you can sneak in ADF m since they wont be crouching… thats called training the opponent ( 
) anywho that sums up the basics of ADF… though we shuld also note that obviously we can cancel the dash as fast as possible and get less range or we can be aggressive and allow the dash to near its completion thus giving it a wopping amount of range… its risky and you’ll get blown up for doing it… but learning when you can get away with a near max range ADF pumps up IM’s offensive very nicely. so learn it. hint… use it when your opponent really wants to create space/after calling a beam assist.
i havent found any good uses for ADF at apex jump height, though at superjump height its good for running away from stuff.
- ADB
what its good for:
instant spamming of moves like neutral H, down H and S… dont bother with M here. its also decent for running away above the ground but IM has 2 much better dashes for that so just make sure to only use this for air normal spam. note that spamming normals like this isnt a strategy that you can spam and just win with, but its great for taking out those people that like playing ultra aggressively in obvious ways like spamming ground dash or instant airdash mixups. also note that its generally safer than using the superjump ADD defense as its alot harder to react to and cant be airthrown by anyone much less air to air’d unless spaced horribly wrong. of course it doesnt give nearly as many dividends as the SJ ADD defense.
- ADU
what its good for:
getting to superjump height while maintaining the ability to call assists and rain smartbombs on people heads. powerful with the right assists.
what to take note of: instant regular jump ADU gets IM to super jump height… no need to wait till IM gets to the apex of his jump to ADU. just do it instantly… much safer and harder for the opponent to react to. call out a beam assist like storm whirlwind as you dash then unleash smartbombs on them. if they were on the ground whirlwind will push them into smartbomb range if they werent there already… thats called synergy ( :tup: )
also IM cant airdash after this which is a downfall of all of his upwards mobility airdashes… cancel to flight to mitigate this if needed, if not MAKE SURE TO FALL WITH A NORMAL.i cant stress that enough, i see lots of IM’s still not covering there descents when they could… make it muscle memory… the damage you take from covering yourself will pale to the damage you get from having an attack out on screen.
- (superjump) ADD
what its good for:
danke has shown its amazing ability to control the space directly underneath IM. pumps up his midrange dominance really well as it can confirm into krispy. however i’d like to make a note here… i dont think dankes use of it is optimal. danke uses D+H from it cause that has the best aspect ratios of range and ability to hit underneath… however because of its speed danke needs to superjump higher in the air to use it… this makes some of his opponents key in on it and try to air to air it with throws or normals… if we use M instead we gain alot of benefits for only 1 detractor:
it has less range than D+H. BUT, IM needs to be in the air less time than he needs to be in the air for h to hit. this makes it safer. also m has less pushback than D+H making krispy easier to hit and M has a fuckload of frame advantage from a superjump ADD making the link to c.M just as easy as from D+H.
D+H mainly has the nicety of also being able to confirm from an air to air hit since it knocks people low. all in all if you want use D+H go for it, im just throwing out that M may suit you better in your game.
- ADUB
what its good for:
i REALLY think this is slept on… IM gains a really good pattern from this.
ADUB to apex of dash xx flight is NICE. firstly its a good defensive pattern cause it moves IM both backwards from the opponent as well as upward which is a spot on the screen that many characters have troubles affecting with projectiles. secondly IM has good options from this height as he can still call helpers and smartbombs while in flight but he can also transition back to offense with things like ADUF plink ADDF S… all while being able to call assists. this is a prime position for IM to start his defense or offense from heights characters arent used to being able to easily affect. ALSO NOTE that IM can call assists while activating flight since flight doesnt count as a special move… so while on the ground he can ADUB XX flight+beam assist then follow that assist with his airdashing or plink dashing… ALSO NOTE that IM has a special slide when in flight from dash that happens pretty much only when hes at max height for instant ADUB. its basically like as if he did a grounded ADDF… he will slide for a bit… only this comes at the height where he would be if he were to cancel into fly on te ground… its esoteric but when following from a helper it allows IM to gain alot of ground towards the opponent and allows IM to easily do 2 move airchains cause of the slide.
- ADUF
what its good for:
nothing much when done from the ground from what i can see.
much better at apex of jump after flight canceling from grounded ADUB.
- (regular jump or superjump) ADDB
what its good for:
forward jump fakeouts, ADF fakeouts. basically… you can use this to jump forward then ADDB + beam assist to setup for ADF and other stuff. use that imagination. also good for fakeouts from super jump forwards when opponent is cornered… leads to combo if opponent blocked the wrong direction or threw out a bad move.
- ADDF
fucking shitty unless used in conjuntion with variants of 5 where it actually becomes really good again.
also note its good from super jump height to run away to the other side of the screen over the opponents head.
so thats a slightly detailed out look on all the best ways to use IM’s various dashes. im not saying that any of this is necessarily new nor am i saying that everyone will agree with my views, but hopefuly theres something that you can learn from and throw into your game as i really dont see many IM’s using these variatios or even trying them.
so one last thing… i believe IM is basically a run away character. not keepaway like morrigan but runaway. he has all the tools to run all over the screen from opponents and drop smartbombs on heads or use his flight to achieve proper spacing for his offensive. and the really good thing is that e has multiple ways of going about that run away to keep the opponent guessing as to how they should be offensive against him.
bottom line if your only defensive pattern with IM is dash backwards then L unibeam or superjump smartbombs… you’ve got work to do.
personally i’d start with 2 spam then transfer to 5.
use 2 a couple of times or 3. to get the opponent to respect the spacing close to you then use that respect to transition to 5 and getinto airdash height flight mode with all its variants.
anywho thats a good place to start.
-dime
Sup Al miss you too bro, how’s everything in Australia? my current ironman team is ironman/nova/wesker lol. The team is basically built around ironman so nova is on nova strike assist and wesker obviously gun so i get around 800k using one bar with my assists. As far as mixups i use only reliable ones i used that work for me so far was uncomboing off the krispy kreme and goin for a reset. Been trying to work on fuzzy guard and incoming character mixups but so far nothing yet.
Good stuff Dime! That is basically how I use all his air dashes as well. Super jump ADDF is decent at escaping corner to the ground (I do that and cancel it to SB or Uni-beam before IM hits the ground to turn it into some corner pressure) and punishing slow projectiles, other than that I have struggled to find a use for it.
I have been working on how to avoid the hit confirm issue and landing hits more often by zoning and have the assist to do the work for me (like how Jwong plays Iron Fist) and I have been running drones with IM for a long while to try and get some offence going. But it is no use against characters who can also rain projectiles from the air and has more mobility than IM, so they can avoid the drones or hit Sentinel (the damn robot stays on the screen for too long and it is too big for its own good) and drones don’t do much for my Dante. And I find Jam Session is enough for controlling some space and avoid to in be a spot where IM can get rush down.
Maybe it is time to switch to Hagger (I miss Tron:()and play total defences, force them into the assist and kill off it. I think maybe that way IM can always land his hardest hitting BnB without the dodgy hit-confirms or KK.
I agree I do need to vary the air normals I use more. Jump S is good for people who attempt to dash under ADD (which will happen when they’re getting frustrated about getting clipped by H’s ridiculous range), and M is fast allowing for slightly scarier offensive potential. Just another thing I’ll have to work into my game, along with not using spread when I’m in a position to followup raw repulsar, directly cancelling spread into PC if it will kill, and getting down the flashiest possible combo for stupid punish situations :p.
Nice post Dime, with this character you really have to abuse as many tools as you can.
Nice stuff Dime. I only read a bit of it so far but I’m sure there’s some great concepts in there. Iron Man can still make great use of his air dashes although not for the same exactly purpose as say a character like Magneto. His air dashes in general seem to be more for controlling space and generally bullying people in the mid range than the hurp durp OS throw offense start stuff like Magneto. I think people generally get discouraged by how not every normal Iron Man throws (at least not yet) converts into free ass damage like with Mags or Doom but the amount of space he can generally bully with those normals plus assists really add up. I honestly feel there’s only a few characters that can challenge the space control of those normals when combined with assists and repulsor blast. Most of the top tier IMO can’t challenge it even.
Once people learn this spacing with Iron Man I feel it works great because then you don’t even have to land converting normals all the time to take big damage off people. If you just stray hit people 3 or 4 times with some air H’s or S’s with assists and smart bombs thrown in…you can take off hella life from them just from them running into stuff. Then when you finally hit them and convert into a combo you can just do the most basic combo without a super and they will die.
I’ve been playing more with Iron Man in general and one of the biggest things I think people will need to get down with Iron Man to make him like a solid character for tourneys…will involve being able to utilizing bunny hopping (just simply normal jumping forwards or backwards) to convert the most easily with Iron Man while still allowing solid movement from Iron Man. Vian Siu touched up on this in the general Iron Man thread and I’d like to get into it more.
With Doom it was easy to just super jump ADDF M all day and then just dash cancel through their advance guards all day until I hit them. Since the air M was also a double hitting aerial hit box I never had to worry about getting crossed up and I could use it to randomly cross people up into big damage or death. Iron Man’s aerial normals have absurd range in comparison to Doom or Magneto IMO but the issue is they’re more specific in use when super jumping than compared to them. A lot of the super jump based techniques (which are useful) that I started putting together will Iron Man stemmed from the stuff I used to do with Doom although it’s much more of a liability if Iron Man does not have an assist and still has issues even when he does**. Mainly due to how there is just no way to get conversions off a super jump + an air dash the way you can with Doom.**
Super jumping means you’re going to give up your air dash at some point (unless you just want to die) which will screw up what Iron Man will need to get real converts at this point now that his double jump is gone. Going to the top of the screen and super jump ADDFing down will probably have its uses later on but **UMVC3 in general is a game that is fought more on the ground than MVC2 so the bigger thing we need to put together is simply playing at normal jump height and getting optimal confirms from that height. **
I was watching my brother use some of Iron Man and he was definitely putting together a little bit of bunny hopping to get solid confirms that I don’t think would be possible off a super jump. The main thing I’ll need to put together from there is finding a way to use the bunny hop to set up mix ups that operate at the speed of the super jump forward ADD stuff or at bare minimum use it to set up the super jump ADD stuff (preferably with an assist but I think with practice I can bully people into it without one also).
It’s pretty matchup specific in my opinion, but for the most part I agree. Against people like Dorm or Hawkeye who completely shut down that horizontal space I’ve had better luck at super jump height punishing greedy zoning attempts with ADDF-- for example, most Dorm’s I’ve played are pretty liberal in throwing out pillars against opponents super jumping full screen, Ironman however is unique in his ability to get cross screen very quickly and punish said attempts. Hell at this point I almost prefer his new air dash just because it adds an element to his space control game, where his air dash pressure was never that great anyway.
Dat Danke I knew that Iron Man seemed familiar. Good stuff at CTB. What did you place?
Yeah I’ll have to mess around with things against those types of characters. I guess with those characters the idea would be pressure with super jump height stuff then switch to normal jump height stuff once you invade their space.
4th, still having trouble with top level zeroes like stone and Sam that got 1st and 2nd.