I’m hoping it’s going to be better than SF4, but I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that yet. 
But who knows, there’s a lot of data that we don’t know about yet that could have tweaked the match up to make it a little less ridiculous.
Considering the Ken, Ryu and Sagat teams of the stream, though, his partner choices could be limited to those that can deal with fireballs/zoning very well. Not sure how the canon team’s going to work with that in mind.
I didn’t have much time to learn the game, plus I don’t learn as quickly as the others. But so far, Gief looks like crap…his ex gh is not invinc anymore (gets beaten by anything, even normals)…lariat launches opponents across the screen, SPD doesn’t do that much damage, etc
Damn, I’m very unhappy to hear that.
The closer it gets to release, the less hyped I am about this game.
What have they given Zangief in exchange for his EX GH nerf, lariat nerf and the fact that his opponents can roll?
Edit: You say anything stops EX GH. Does EX GH still go through fireballs?
awesome…if gief dosnt work out you going to move on to hugo?
edit…it doesn’t show in this post…but i’m super turbo angry…i just wanted to put that out there
I’ve seen some footage where SPDs do MONSTER damage. That may have been from an old build that’s been toned down a little. Or it could just be that there is a huge difference in damage between the LP and HP versions. That’s something someone should test if they get the chance. Or not, the games almost here anyway.
It also looks like whiffed SPDs recover a little quicker. But that may just be my eyes playing tricks on me.
The “monster damage” is from the October videos when Zangief was just announced. It was nerfed since then to its current levels.
If you look at the more recent videos, you can see the damage that his throws do and you can of course tell the different versions based on the height. To be honest, they’re not that impressive when every other character seems to be able to combo their moves into a super. It doesn’t look like a great engine for grapplers.
Meanwhile in the Hugo thread:
o_O
Honestly, if you play Zangief in SFIV, it looks like Hugo’s the better option. He can take advantage of everything in this engine, has more move options (such as his aerial throw) and can combo into his super (with Pandora).
I saw 2 recent videos where 2 regular SPDs did over half Chun’s life, and 2 regular and 1 EX SPD brought Cammy to ~10%.
If there’s something to complain about I don’t think it’s the damage.
Maybe, just maaaaayyyybbe, SPDs can be counted as counterhits now and get the counterhit bonus damage.
Probably not.
Well you can charge RBG, cancel and get the counter damage, provided you land it. Then again, so can every other character, and Ryu charging Hadouken is going to be a pain (for everyone).
Anyway, what did people think of Zangief on the Machinima stream? SPD only did a tiny amount of damage to Hugo which is worrying. Considering Hugo’s got all the tools Zangief does, and more, that worries me a little. However, I’ve seen people say that Zangief has better normals and considering the importance of footsies, it couldn’t be all bad. 
Still, I think there’s still a lot more to find out about Zangief in this game, especially regarding his headbutt, floorbounces and juggling properties. Unlike, Ryu, I don’t think people have been given enough time with him yet.
Just a little tidbit. Here are the light command throw ranges of Abel, Hugo and Zangief compared:
Click here
[media=youtube]MyW5Uxi31sI[/media]
Skip to about 5:50 in the embedded player.
I thought Zangief was going to do more throw damage than Hugo… Begs the question, what does Zangief have?
What scares me is that ABEL seems to have more range.
Actually it does seem rather large. I hadn’t noticed since I was focusing on the other two.
It feels like they threw in Zangief because they already had the model for him. There’s three weeks left for some good news whereas it seems to keep rolling in for other characters. Oh well.
I watched the wednesday night fights stream and Sethkill said lots of ex moves remove the possibilty for your opponent to tech roll…maybe ex green hand grants that so you have a choice - extend combo or mix up.
Gief to me looks like he has been designed to be purely a secondary. Pair him with someone who can get in and he will be good. If people plan on starting him then good luck!
As for the Gief vs Hugo debate I think Gief will be better. Hugo needs meter to control the air and is going to be an instant overhead practice dummy. Giefs normals are more versatile too. I see lots similarities of Hugo to Hawk in Sf4. Lots of people thought Hawk would be very good, but he turned out to flawed.
One other thing in Giefs favour - I watched the WGC stream this morning of Fuudo vs RF and normal specials on block like a dp that are tag cancelled were not safe with both characters eating damage. It looks like lots of SF4 get of jail options need 2 bar which hurts in a 3 bar game.
Funnily enough, I watched the WNF today. Zangief looked very solid in it when played by Mike Ross even when paired with Marduk (which I thought would have been a bit too similar). It still seemed like in the third match that he was testing stuff out (look at the random air throws that lost him the round) and he didn’t appear to be aware of the follow-up options from the headbutt. Also, I thought the lariat problem was going to really hurt him but it looks like it does decent damage. Considering the opponent can tech roll out, it might be beneficial to do the damage than rely on follow-ups.
What I found very interesting is when Seth Killian spoke about him a few times. Apparently when he picks characters to test the engine he goes for Ryu (of course) and surprisingly Zangief as well . He actually seemed pretty interested in him and seemed pleased about the different move properties. He also talked about using SPD with or after an autoblock gem which I guess will appeal to new players. My point is, I thought Zangief was being forgotten but if he’s being used like this, I guess that couldn’t be the case.
Anyway, those who are considering playing him should watch Mike Ross’s matches. If nothing else, it’s interesting to see the RBG armor properties. Chun-Li breaks through it with a chain but it’s able to catch Rufus’s crouching fierce and quite awesomely, it was used like a FADC during a cross-up. I’m still slightly worried that he can’t combo into the Super and Pandora’s sort of useless for him but I’ll guess we’ll see.
For those who haven’t seen it:
Two Mike Ross matches in this one and Seth Killian talking about Zangief ( the latter of which is about two hours in iirc):
Mike Ross’s third match and casual Zangief + Kazuya play:
Cross Counter with a couple of Zangief mentions:
[media=youtube]mShIZZ1v4mo[/media]
Thanks for posting the video archives.
Some stuff I noticed from the videos:
RBG - you take damage that does not recover so if you want to abuse this you will need some yellow gems to avoid taking damage. I think this makes sense of course as recoverable health would make this option retarded.
2nd Spot - Gief just seems way better when someone has gotten him in!
Ground Rolls - figuring out what stops people doing this (as in what moves), will be huge for Gief
links into launchers - given that c.lp, c.lp, s.lp, s.mp, s.hp, launcher works, he will have all day to hit confirm, or cancel the s.mp part of the chain into ex gren hand for ground bounce and combo extention, or even end with a sweep! Hugo might have that godlike c.mk, but he can’t hitconfirm into it off of more than 1 hit - not as good in my opinion.
As for no cancel into super - why focus on the negatives. If his Super is 0 frames then this won’t matter…why? You no longer need to do 720, that’s why - 210 should do the trick! Walk up super will be available to everyone as long as the input requirment is toned down like spd’s in SF4 (and they have been going on about execution is not what they are going for). No need to tick, empty jump, whiff something (and all these options are still available to you). On top of that it will make for a very easy tool to punish with…if it is 0 frames of course - but nothing to suggest it would not be.
On the subject of him getting torn a new one vs Sagat or projectile characters, this looks like it will be the case if…you start him vs said characters, or your opponent hits you and tags said character in. This problem won’t go away, but it’s the reason he needs to go second imo. keep him out of it as much as possible until you are in and then exploit his close potential. His damage looks fine, so if it really bothers you, load him out with defence gems that mean taking risks to get in won’t hurt as much and you can push the issue in bursts. Let’s also not forget, he could not hit confirm sweeps in SF4, and he COULD smash Sagat and Guile quickly when he got in.
Gief looks solid enough to me and I am going to pair him with Julia (first slot). She has her wind roll to get through projectiles and her combos carry to the corner making Giefs life a little easier.
On a seperate note, I now realise why Honda and Blanka are not in. As mash characters you can’t have those inputs with the chain system. They will only be in if Capcom decide they can also have motion moves for electricity and hands…but hands would be so good in this game!
From one of the Seth videos, if I recall correctly, they refer to it as “translucent yellow” health. i.e. swap him, out and he should be able to recover it. A bit like Haggar’s lariat in UMvC3; a powerful option that balances its utility with risk.
Because other characters are able to do absolutely ridiculous combos off a wallbounce. :eek:
He must be one of say two characters that aren’t able to do that, that’s why I’m so fixated with it. I guess we’ll have to see how viable it is. I’m just wondering, what can Zangief do off a wallbounce when others can launch into their Pandora super art? Lariat? I wonder if his headbutt can catch them on the way down for a floorbounce.
Yeah, that is pretty awesome. You raise some good points. 
I don’t really want to limit my choice by having to include someone that can essentially ignore fireballs but I think that includes the whole Tekken roster and no doubt some of them will be fun to play. It means gief’s only a tag away once you get in, anyway. It’s going to be very interesting.
What about Chun-Li? They moved her kicks to a command so there’s no reason they couldn’t do that with electricity as well. I’d prefer they didn’t make it in though, personally…
Anyway, great post. It’s great to see positivity returning to this thread.
If you mash fast enough for the special move to come out, you would get that instead of a chain anyway. Plus Gen had chains.
Pretty sure they just don’t like mash inputs, so they’d switch them to HCF motions like Chun.
They probably switched Chun so Hyakuretsukyaku could be her charge move.
The combo potential in the game does make it seem that it’s a disadvantage, but that is like saying he should have had a combo into Ultra in SF4 like Ryu, or Sagat. I’m not denying having his U2 from SSF4 would have been amazing from a wallbounce or soemthing, but they have done a decent job at making him fit the system, but retain his core skills. For all those people who can combo into their super easily, they won’t be able to:
- punish anything that is -1 or worse on block at a decent range (if it’s not 0 frames then it will be garbage though!)
- land a super on a blocking opponent
- tick into super
- empty jump super
- walk up super
- tag cancel on block to super.
- tag cancel out of moves that leave your opponent standinging and at minus frames to slightly delayed super/mix up…Ken EX tatsu, Chun legs…etc.
All those combo characters won’t be able to do this, and if you are landing hits anyway, just bring in a partner who can cancel to super, or just use your cross art as meter seems to build really quickly anyway.
Let’s not forget that if you do the EX version of a charge special, it halves the time to super…and Giefs RBG has armour while he is charging - could be very decent to scare the crap out of people or punish long laggy limbs harder than just a grab like vs Rufus c.hp.
On the cancel into pandora, remember that Pandora cancels are 0 frames…into a 0 frame super…there could be some interesting setups, that will allow for some nasty guessing on your opponents behalf. I am theory fighting, but let’s say you cancel into pandora from a move that leaves you at 0 or -1, bring in Gief (potentially another reason to have him second) and Super…is that shit potentially gauranteed if they were still sat there at the pandora flash? We will know when the game comes out, but the possibilites are making my head hurt in a good way :). I think Pandora could be a decent comeback mechanic the more I read about it, especially if you have the gem for damage loaded with it and land a hit on a 40% health opponent - comeback achieved!
EDIT: Read some notes from DESK about Pandora. He says it leaves the incoming character a few steps back, so my thoery fighting may be off…just depends what “a few steps” means? Anyway something to test day 1.
Going to pair Gief with Chun. Legs will be so good for bringing Gief in for mix up - grab or combo guessing games anyone with Gief stood next to you at bigger advantage than he ever had in SF4!
Looking at the SF Cross Assault stream, he has a lot more links now. Stuff like cl.MK to s.MP, cl.HP to s.LP, cl.LK to s.LK, cl.MP to s.MP, c.HP to s.MK works.