Inkblots post on frontpage

[System_1]

To me, top 5 matters and then those making top 10 without top tier matter. For me those are the 2 types of players that get props from me. If you get 7th with O.Sagat(hell even higher with this character) then it’s really nothing. You place 8th with T.Hawk and you rock.

What’s going to happen if top players all used top tier? Fucking boring. So I give mad props to players that win without having all of the advantages of top tier. I mean, top 5 wouldn’t have been top 5 without top tier so without top tier they would get no props and wouldn’t go anywhere with non-top tier. So, the highest placing players with the weaker character choices get mad props because they progress farther in the tourney without the aid of advantages from the top tier. Those players win without the character doing any of the winning for them.

In my opinion, high placing with low tier is far more worthy of props than high placing with top tier so I put top 8-10 with non-TT about as high on my fan list as the winners. The winners wouldn’t have won without TT which is help. The lower placers with non-TT could certainly have placed higher with a more powerful and easy character but did it their way. Sorry, non-top tier placers get more credit. All top tier placers do is copy shit from Japan anyway and practice it ad nauseum. All the originality and creative brainwork comes from the more interesting characters that don’t allow the character to do the winning for them.

Example: John Choi wins ST with O.Sagat=props, he’s good. It’s too bad that O.Sagat beats half of the characters with little or no thought.
JumpsuitJesse wins with Fei=Mad props. Everyone wins with Sagat. No one wins with Fei. Jesse gets way more props then Choi. Sagat is easy to win with. Fei is not. Sagat takes little brain power too so a top player with him isn’t impressive at all.

In reality, the creative and original players that aren’t just copying the elite tactics are the players that make a tournament worth watching. Fuck giving props to the guys that only use top tier and follow textbook formula. Sure they win, because their character is so powerful and not because they are so good. If they were, they’d prove it. Instead, they know that in order to do well they need to choice characters that are advantaged in the first place.

To break it down=no guts, no glory. Top tier doesn’t require guts. It makes winning that much easier.

Sorry, 7th place Ibuki whoops on 3rd place Chun Li in my book. Chun Li on 3s gets no props in that comparison. Ibuki is weaker and takes more brainpower to advance with. Chun Li is pretty braindead and all top strategies are online to copy.

Inkblot is out of touch it would seem. Does he want everyone making the next 3s tourney all Chun, Ken and Yun? Wtf? That’s a soon-2-b-dead scene right there.

I do believe Inkblot has it backward. Your character choice says something about a player. Does the guy bringing a gun to a knife fight get props for winning? No. The knife guy would since he’s at a disadvantage. Does JWong get props for O.Sagat? Maybe a little because he’s young. Does he look like a fool getting pounced on by Kuni with a rougher character whose earning hardcore props? Yup. Kuni was the star not because we love him but because he won with a “real” character and didn’t “cop-out” and go to a more powerful character. Justin’s Sagat pick is understandable because he was so far behind but, any number of fools could’ve done the same thing with O.Sagat but choose to use characters that require thinking. Kuni would’ve gotten the props if he placed 5th because it was with Gief.

Ink and Srk should take top tier with a grain of salt and realize it’s an instant advantage and appreciate the players that win without those inherent advantages because otherwise tournaments would be soooo boring with nothing but top tier.

Again, top 8 with non-top tier is more props worthy than 3rd with top tier.

[xX_Deus_Xx]

Sure they win, because their character is so powerful and not because they are so good. If they were, they’d prove it. Instead, they know that in order to do well they need to choice characters that are advantaged in the first place.

sorry but your ideas are wrong. why dont you just pick o.sagat and win evo, champ?

you sound to me like someone WHO HAS YET TO PLAY a top player in casuals. they will work you with anything, anyone.

its easy to assume “oh justin wong ONLY PLAYS CHUN LI AND WILL SURELY LOSE IF HE PLAYS ANYTHING ELSE” so long as you dont actually have to play justin wong ever.

you seem really green to me. just trust me when i say top players have the skills to back it up and most top players will mop most mid, low-mid players with random select.

the problem is top players cant beat other top players unless they have all the options availble to them.

but anyways, im going to say GET OUT TO TOURNEYS, PLAY THOSE TOP PLAYERS GO AHEAD AND SEE IF YOU CAN BEAT TOP PLAYERS JUST FUCKING AROUND.

you talk like you know it all but seriously you dont know jack.

whats your location?

edit:
whats funny is that on top of giving props to those that do it the quirky way, your actually saying we should DETRACT AWAY from those that place higher with more conventional play styles? wtf is your problem? again i feel you need a reality check on what a top player really is.

[System_1]

bla

That’s 06 for you.

[archetype]

ink is saying “Don’t brag about getting top 8”, not “if you don’t place #1, you’re shit”.

So calm down, ladies.

Has anyone read this? This is what I got out of that blog post. Not some “don’t call me a loser if I get 8th argument”. Not some wacky conspiracy that “new school” players are all unrespectable assholes who don’t appreciate the “Old school”. Not some “fuck pad players they have no will to travel to the last 3 arcades in the U.S” shit either. Stop analysing the blog post too much.

[System_1]

the problem is top players cant beat other top players unless they have all the options availble to them.whats your location?

The rest of your post is retarded especially after you basically just make my point.

Yup, to beat the better players they have to have all of the advantages=top tier. You can say they are great with other characters and could be pretty good but it they want to win, they know they aren’t good enough and need all the help they can get.

A lot of random players have done well using O.Sagat.

For the record, Justin is probably the best player of this generation. I even said he gets props just because he’s a youngin’ to ST. But it’s true, any good player will do better with O.Sagat by default.

Seriously, you haven’t a clue as to how green I am anyway and if you want to get personal, learn to play some streetfighter and pick top tier all you want and I’d whoop your ass anyway. I’m not one to make random claims and know exactly how good I am. Come Evo, I might just use O.Sagat to drive home the point but people would forget in a year or two anyway.

I’ll play you for money and I’ll bet on my placing at Evo if you want. Fact is, you’re greener than I am. I have played every top SF player you can think of.

Getting personal is all in fun for me. I know of you though and you don’t know of me. I’m at an advantage when it comes to analyzing both of us. You would lose homie. If you want to challenge me here and now for $400+ then I’d fly there in a month with you paying for my trip. That’s how much I think you’d lose. I’d fly down there, put my money in someone hands and whoop you and embarass you and then fly home and make a new account. I’m sure we’d be cool afterward but the sting of you opening your mouth like that on my opinion and getting schooled would be mighty embarassing.

Let opinions fly, it’s a discussion. When you let your mouth fly like it’s personal, you run the risk of getting embarassed. And that’s what this would be. I agree to disagree but I have a more informed opinion than you do and I’m a better player. Where you got that I was a newb from because of my opinion is strange to me but, your assessment of my skills is so far off the mark it’s ridiculous bcuz I would have the time of my life flying down to Family Fun to whoop you when you called me a scrub, basically. That cade is great. I would love a free flight.

[supermin]

what the fuck go play some video games people

[True_Karate]

This is my last post in here…

All I wanna say is lets see who gets they shine on when you cant use Ken or Chun at SBO East Coast Quals in that 3rd tourney!

I really wonder who people gonna run to then.:rolleyes:

If u cant use anybody but top tier, my av is gonna rape u!

Outro

[supermin]

If u cant use anybody but top tier, my av is gonna rape u!

that’s also another argument against the “let’s ban top-tiers” argument

second tier becomes top etc i mean aren’t there a trillion threads on mvc2 like that

[DaDesiCanadian]

Seriously, you haven’t a clue as to how green I am anyway and if you want to get personal, learn to play some streetfighter and pick top tier all you want and I’d whoop your ass anyway. I’m not one to make random claims and know exactly how good I am. Come Evo, I might just use O.Sagat to drive home the point but people would forget in a year or two anyway.

I’ll play you for money and I’ll bet on my placing at Evo if you want. Fact is, you’re greener than I am. I have played every top SF player you can think of.

Let opinions fly, it’s a discussion. When you let your mouth fly like it’s personal, you run the risk of getting embarassed. And that’s what this would be. I agree to disagree but I have a more informed opinion than you do and I’m a better player. Where you got that I was a newb from because of my opinion is strange to me but, your assessment of my skills is so far off the mark it’s ridiculous bcuz I would have the time of my life flying down to Family Fun to whoop you when you called me a scrub, basically. That cade is great. I would love a free flight.

Shit Deus, you just got schooled by an undercover OG.

Unless of course, his claims are all bullshit.

Either way, you can give your low tier characters all the props they want, us top tier character players will enjoy our tourney-winning props.

[SHAAAADY]

A fucking agreed!!!

I know just what your talking about too cause we kept going back n forth with Eddie Lee, u,and Cen in casual and me or Datrick had a shot at beating Eddie Lee but we couldn’t beat your fucking Akuma in 2nd impact. Datrick was like the only person in that rcade that beat Eddies Ibuki but we he had to get pass you to fight em. And some weak homie from Ne ended up getting 4th and we were like howd his weak ass place higher than us? Oh that was the shit!!

Yeah sometimes matches are just too close to act like the other guy is just nothing just because u happened to win.

lol word.
But yeah I remember, Datrick and I were the only ones able to beat Eddies Ibuki in casual (he played like Tees Ibuki but with less combos).
We gotta play some games man…You comin to mwc or what?

[strakka]

How the hell did this stir up 70 posts? It certainly doesn’t deserve it.

Whining about top tiers, tournament factor, and whatever excuses you want to throw out doesn’t mean shit. In the end, somewhere along the line, you still lost, and there’s room for improvement. Maybe you need to learn a matchup better. Maybe you need to learn how to play under tournament conditions. Maybe you need to stop doing stupid shit. Whatever.

I’m pretty sure all Ink’s saying is that if you’re aren’t placing first, there’s still room for improvement. Even if you come in second place, you have no right to brag about your skills.

So stop patting yourself on the back & step up your game.

[Gaijinblaze]

Yup, to beat the better players they have to have all of the advantages=top tier. You can say they are great with other characters and could be pretty good but it they want to win, they know they aren’t good enough and need all the help they can get.

True, but isn’t knowing what character you’re most effective with part of being a smart player? Justin or whoever combines his skill with the best characters to get the results he wants. It’s not really his fault, because the game is built to give the advantage to those players and it is a tournament after all.

I like to see uncommon characters too, but if KSK got 2nd place and a Chun got first, do you think KSK would be thinking “damn, I actually am the better player though since I came 2nd with Alex.”? He probably just shrugs it off because at the character select screen he had a choice to make, and he chose Alex.

I used to hate Ken and Chun but now it doesn’t bother me as much. I give credit where it’s due even if someone uses top tier.

[Suupaa]

True, but isn’t knowing what character you’re most effective with part of being a smart player? Justin or whoever combines his skill with the best characters to get the results he wants. It’s not really his fault, because the game is built to give the advantage to those players and it is a tournament after all.

I like to see uncommon characters too, but if KSK got 2nd place and a Chun got first, do you think KSK would be thinking “damn, I actually am the better player though since I came 2nd with Alex.”? He probably just shrugs it off because at the character select screen he had a choice to make, and he chose Alex.

I used to hate Ken and Chun but now it doesn’t bother me as much. I give credit where it’s due even if someone uses top tier.

Cosign.

I mean, just look at the KSK ranbats. Nuki wins most of the time now. No one ever says, OMG IF YAMAZAKI USED CHUN HE’D SO OWN HIM!

From me reading this, the idea I came up with is don’t think you’re hot shit for placing top 10 or whatever. If it’s your first time, be proud, and know that you’re improving. But that should give you more motivation to be better, not to say “well i placed 7th, I’m elite now.”

If we were all happy with our places, FGC would just die, because we’d just give our money away to Pyro/Vic/Wong/Ortiz/etc, while we get 4th-10th, and we’d consider ourselves good.

For the people who use low-tier, good for you. However, placing kinda high doesn’t make you as good or better than the winner. Again I can use Yamazaki. He places pretty high sometimes in ranbats, maybe 2nd-5th, while Nuki might win. If you asked the Japanese players who they thought the best player was, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t say “Well, Nuki is good, but Yamazaki is better, because he gets close to Nuki with Tweleve.” They know who’s better. I’m sure they’ll give him his props, but they know who the best is.

[FMJaguar]

I mean, just look at the KSK ranbats. Nuki wins most of the time now. No one ever says, OMG IF YAMAZAKI USED CHUN HE’D SO OWN HIM!

Agreed, someone who has decided through their knowledge and experience that they can do better with another character is far different than just using another character because you ‘like’ them or want to get props without actually winning.

There is no garuntee at all that using a better character will make you better. But on the flipside, if you actually think that using a better character will improve your results, use the better character.

The point is that the decision should be what character gets you the most wins, and contrary to popular belief, not everyone is better with certain characters. But if you never consider top tier because of some out of game respect, how can you really know?

[System_1]

True, but isn’t knowing what character you’re most effective with part of being a smart player? Justin or whoever combines his skill with the best characters to get the results he wants. It’s not really his fault, because the game is built to give the advantage to those players and it is a tournament after all.

I like to see uncommon characters too, but if KSK got 2nd place and a Chun got first, do you think KSK would be thinking “damn, I actually am the better player though since I came 2nd with Alex.”? He probably just shrugs it off because at the character select screen he had a choice to make, and he chose Alex.

I used to hate Ken and Chun but now it doesn’t bother me as much. I give credit where it’s due even if someone uses top tier.

I totally agree with you. Of course, we all haven’t played for the same reasons. Strategy starts before the game and I am with you there. Maybe some players are so arrogant that they think that they would win if they used top tier so they purposely make it more difficult for themselves. I recall Valle using lower tier characters or what we thought we low tier to win Alpha tournaments just because he could at some events.

But on the KSK idea I think KSK would feel superior with 2nd place under a Chun 1st place. I believe Alex vs Chun is close to a washout. The tournament would also be more exciting because of Alex.

Tournaments are best with all sorts of players. Who gets props is really subjective. In that case, KSK would get huge props and the Chun player would get your average dose. KSK’s feat was superior in my opinion so he would get more props from me because of the difficulty factor. To me it’s like beating the computer. Who gives a fuck if you do it in easy mode(as an example for Chun). It only means something when it’s beaten on the toughest difficulties(as an example of Alex). The props fit the circumstances for me. Placing top 3 with O.Sagat is nothing next to top 5 with Cammy. They aren’t the same levels of difficulty.

If someone is the best player with Q and doesn’t win tournaments he still gets more props than Makoto or Chun.

Does Japan give props to Akuma players on ST? It’s great strategy simply because it makes winning easier but they won’t respect that. We all have our criteria. Remember how much props Dr.B got for almost beating Daigo because he was using S groove? More people remember that than remember Ratio1beatdown kicking Daigo’s ass. People assess what they appreciate and it’s just one man’s opinion that only the winners deserve props when the winners couldn’t defeat the best non top tier users without top tier. Switch the characters around and there would be different results.

We agree that character choice is relevant to the outcome. I don’t see why it isn’t applicable to where we give props.

[System_1]

Haha, first Dustloop.com forums, now here. This is quite a read.

JP

[master_akuma]

thats exactly who i was thinking about when i was replying to inkblots post. from what i’ve read (unless for some strange reason kim is a complete liar and so are his friends) the guy has A LOT OF HEART for the game, and the way he talks about his struggle to top 8, well EVEN IM PROUD OF HIM, and i dont even know the guy. i think he has every reason to be proud of himself.

You said it 100% clear and right :tup:

I think more people should read this in order to understand why its so INSANE hard to place in the best 10th places or best 8th places in tournaments like Evolution: http://www.crazyasskim.com/cvs2.htm

[SNkNuT]

placing through a touney in the top 8 with low tiers gets my respect. lower than that you’re just wasting your time.

[qwazy]

i think what he’s trying to say is that the term “elite” is losing it’s meaning.

placing within 4th and 8th every tourney doesnt make you “elite”. placing 4th-8th only means you’re not good enough to place top 3.

placing 1st-3rd day in and day out is what makes you “elite”. when you’re truly in the hunt for #1 at each tournament, when you’re on that special level that only includes you and maybe two or three other guys, then you can be elite.

[System_1]

i think what he’s trying to say is that the term “elite” is losing it’s meaning.

placing within 4th and 8th every tourney doesnt make you “elite”. placing 4th-8th only means you’re not good enough to place top 3.

placing 1st-3rd day in and day out is what makes you “elite”. when you’re truly in the hunt for #1 at each tournament, when you’re on that special level that only includes you and maybe two or three other guys, then you can be elite.

I think ultimately this is what was trying to be said originally, it’s just that the wording got under a few skins…

Close thread? :wonder: