Info on the Old School SF Scene?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
61

Saturday afternoon, we warmed up our skills by destroying the locals at Pinball Plus. An appetizer for the main course to come. Then we got in the car and cruised down to Pasadena. This was pretty absurd if you stopped to think about it. Me, a 17-year-old kid getting in the car with some stranger I barely knew, and us going on the freeway to travel to another town in hopes of possibly meeting this reputed good player at a video game. But with Street Fighter 2, anything was possible

When I first arrived at Pak-Mann, I was dumbfounded. Id been to the arcade before: its about a block long and filled with row up on row of arcade machines from past, present, and future. What was surprising was the row of 10 Street Fighter machines and the crowd of people surrounding them. I didnt have to see the marquee to know what game everyone was playing and excitedly talking about. There were so many people that they had to put a few of the machines in another row so the crowd wouldnt get too clumped in one area.

I put my quarter up and waited through a line of three people. By the time I drew first blood, I knew I belonged. My Chun Li was one of the better ones out there. My Blanka wasnt too shabby either. The stream of players kept coming, a regular and steady flow of more meat for the grinder. But this isnt what I came here for. I had plenty of newbies back home to beat up. I wanted the Man himself.

Scoping the aisles of machines, my friend pointed him out. There he is. I stood and watched as he dismantled opponent after opponent. Nobody could take a round off of him. Tomo looked like an average, unassuming Asian kid. But the way he was playing was anything but ordinary.

He was doing combos. Jumping Forward, low Jab, Razor Kick. Dizzy. Jumping Fierce, low Strong, Razor Kick. Dead. I had no idea what combos were. I just saw people dying REALLY fast. Like 10 seconds and the round was over. It was pretty scary. I didnt know why they werent blocking the second and third hits.

I dropped in my quarter and lost first round badly to a dizzy combo. I looked at the controller as if defensive crouch didnt work. I cant block that?

No. He laughed. I almost won second round due to my unorthodox Chun Li play and some timely throws, but he pulled it out. I proceeded to wait in line and continually get schooled by his Guile.

I didnt realize it at the time, but Tomo wasnt just playing the game. He was creating it as he went along. He wasnt sticking to any simple fireball-uppercut pattern. He was faking, feinting, constantly doing something to throw you off, testing new moves. While you were thinking of the next move, he was thinking three moves down the line. While I was a follower learning traps and patterns, he was creating them.

As I was waiting in line, a guy came around and handed me a flyer. His name was Charles and he was holding a tournament at some comic book shop called Worlds Finest Comics.

A video game tournament?! Are you serious? Never before had the idea been mentioned. But now that I thought about it, it made sense. Here was my shot at a real-life Bloodsport. Vahe and I knew we had to go to this.

62

The fateful Saturday rolls around and we head down to Pico Rivera. Worlds Finest Comics, the locale where Tomo and company hung out, played, strategized, talked, and generally grew into the #1 Street Fighter community in the U.S. The tournament was about 30 people or so. The turnout was considered a success, and Charles announced that he would hold another one in 3 weeks.

I didnt make top 10, but I didnt care. I was there to learn, and learn I did. How to combo. The latest combos. Redizzy combos. Corner traps. Fireball traps. Trap counters. How to throw. How to reverse.

Every three weeks, Vahe and I would go to Worlds Finest for these SF tournaments. We went as much to compete as to amass knowledge like a sponge. And then bring back the latest tricks of the trade to our local arcade to whip ass on the newbies.

Worlds Finest wasnt just the site of a video game tournament. It was a place for SF experts to gather, be accepted, and share tales of their local arcades. It was a place where the newest and most effective combos, strategies, and glitches could be displayed, analyzed, and countered. The In & Out burger restaurant across the street was the source for our daily sustenance, drinks, and a secondary hangout - our home away from home.

Gradually, the pecking order of Worlds Finest developed. There was the Big Four and everyone else. The Big Four were Tomo Ohira, Roger Chung, Tony Tsui, and Willy (Lee?). They were in a class by themselves, playing at another level from everyone else. The reason they were grouped together like that is because the other three were the only ones who could beat Tomo, although he ended up winning most of the tournaments.

As time progressed, people realized that not all characters were created equally. Guile emerged as the best, and the only character who could stood a chance against him was Dhalsim. Every tournament came down to Guile and Dhalsim fighting in the finals and semi-finals.

Vahe was a real student of the game. He could sit back and watch people play, dissecting what they were doing to win. What traps worked and how to get out of them. Every move had a counter. Every technique had an answer.

His problem was he didnt have the reflexes and coordination to pull off the latest combos as they were invented. So he took me under his wing as his student. He told me what to do and when to do it. What countered what and the latest strategies. Living vicariously through me, he was training a lean, mean, fighting machine.

After a couple tournaments, the Guile/Dhalsim fight was expected. It became like an elaborate dance to the death, with new moves added every week. It evolved. First Dhalsim started with standing Fierce to push people back, then Fireball, standing Forward. Then people changed it to Fireball, standing Fierce to push them back and get damage when they jumped. Then people found out Fireball, low fierce had more priority. Then it became Fireball, low Roundhouse slide when they jumped, Yoga Flame as they got up, standing Fierce, repeat. Fireball, close-range standing forward. Fireball, jump back Fierce. Drill (Yoga Mummy), throw. Noogie, standing Strong, Noogie some more. Yoga Flame, throw (in the corner). The variations were endless.

Every week changes were made to the choreography, and if you didnt keep up on the latest moves and the appropriate counter, you would succumb to them. It became like homework in Street Fighter school to memorize the latest tactics. And believe me, school was in session.

By this time, I was becoming an elite SF player. I knew all the strategies for destroying any non-Guile/Dhalsim characters with either Guile or Dhalsim. People I didnt know, didnt scare me. I began placing top 10 at Worlds Finest, as the homework and practice began to pay off. I still couldnt beat the Big Four when it counted, but I would make them earn it.

At this point, playing at my local 7-11 was no longer satisfying. Local scrubs were stifling my growth, dulling my skills, and providing false confidence. I only wanted to play at Worlds Finest, where the true challenge lay. Every three weeks, I would go to the tournaments and get schooled by 3 weeks worth of new ideas and strategies. It was difficult trying to improvise counter strategies on the fly, but I tried and loved every second of it.

Between tournaments, Vahe and I would scour Los Angeles, looking for hotbeds of hidden SF talent. Searching for a backwoods pizza place with a local prodigy who might have some tricks we could use.

I became like a talent scout. I would go to foreign arcades and just watch how the locals played. If their technology (the moves and patterns they were using) wasnt up to snuff, I wouldnt even bother wasting a quarter to beat them. When I was out with my girlfriend, we would walk by an arcade and she would know we had to go inside to see what people were doing.

By the way, the one time I brought my girlfriend to Worlds Finest (boys, never bring your girlfriend to a video game tournament. Shell be bored out of her mind.), I won the tournament, beating Tomo in the Finals. One of the high points of my SF career.

Eventually, we realized that we had scouted all there was to scout. There was no more hidden talent in LA. The best places to play were Pak Mann in Pasadena, College Arcade across the street from LACC (LA Community College), and Worlds Finest in Pico Rivera. By now, we knew everybody at these places on a first name basis.

Do you believe in pre-destination? It exists in video games. If you dropped a quarter in a machine and challenged me, and I didnt know your name, you already lost. There was no doubt. Your fate was pre-determined. You just wasted 25 cents funding my gaming habit for the next minute.

When I spent three hours a day, seven days a week presiding over the scrubs at my local arcades and doing my homework regularly at Worlds Finest for the latest tricks of the trade, there was no way a stranger could win. It just didnt happen. Ever.

Oh there were guys that talked smack. Lots of them. You gotta play my friend at Street Fighter. Hes sooooooo good. You dont know how many times I heard that.

But the end result was always the same. Unless I knew you and practiced against you regularly, you didnt beat me. Not even a round. The people who could beat you became like family. Your peers. Your comp. What made you better. What pushed you further. What made you innovate.

My comrades and I played through all sorts of conditions. Walk into an arcade no defensive crouch. No problem. Ill pick Ryu and uppercut through the fireballs. Spin kick to the other side and play footsie. Broken controls werent a deterrent, they were a handicap which we overcame. Roundhouse doesnt work all the time. Time to play Dhalsim.

Only two buttons work.
Is one of them punch?
Yes.
Zangief.

I would play matches using only one button - jab. I would play one-handed: one hand on the joystick and the same hand on buttons (and yes, you can still fireball/uppercut that way). I could literally beat people with one hand behind my back. Buddies would share rounds. Sometimes, we would play together. My friend would do joystick, I would do buttons and we could fireball trap (with fakes) and uppercut opponents without verbal communication. Great minds think alike? Sometimes I would be bored and let people take off more than half my life, then magically turn it on and demolish them without taking any damage. It was sick.

So it was established Pico Rivera was where the best Street Fighter players in Los Angeles played. But how did LA compare to the rest of the world? We were about to find out as we took our first trip outside LA in search of the true World Warrior

63

What a gem of a thread!

64

Eggo, dude, speak the lore.

<tips his hat>

To move forward, remember the past…

With eternal vigilance the old skool will never die…

  • j
65

with this talk about og sf, im trying to learn guile. can one of you guys help me on the guile vs ryu matchup HF, the gameplan and strategy, like followups and setups after booms…im only 17 but i played this 24 year old og player and i would come so close to beating his ryu with my ryu but when i go to guile i completely lose, and his guile beats down on both my guys but i still don’t really know how to play guile.

66

It’s all about the mind game. I already said it, but, make that charge time dissapear. Put the pressure on. Use his thrusting knee to close the distance and keep the pressure on. Use the range of his crouching normals to your advantage. You can always counter his wiff roundhouse with a low forward. Learn the walk-unders, the wiffs, etc. to set him up and take him down. It’s really quite easy when you get feel of it.

Shotos, except the very best, are easy to contol with Guile. Just shut them down. Distance and positioning are the key. Just get in close to him, get in his face, and learn from there.

Good luck - j

67

This is really good.

68

j: thanks for replying i read your post on shinakuma too when you talked about the walk unders, but im still trying to figure it out. Right its like im developing a pattern of slow boom, walk forward, down forward twice, then boom again (if they jump im screwed), or continue down jabbing before boom but if they jump while im jabbing then FK. (that gets weak but not sure what else to do)

sometimes they jump and i walk under and throw from other side. or low boom knee boom again. i’ll use the other booms like fierce to give myself room when they throw fireball so i can walk foward. that’s all i basically do…(not a good sign) I mean in ST he has those new kicks so i can use him but he seems more limited in HF, , what about corner traps…i’ll just keep practicing

69

Back in the day… (LONG!)

Let me begin by sending mad shouts out to jcasetnl

It is jcasetnl’s recounting of the lore tales of yesteryear that has brought me out of retirement and to my keyboard this afternoon.

For the first time in over a decade he has called upon me to share my experiences with what I consider to be the greatest arcade game of all time. Dare I say the greatest videogame of all time…? Street Fighter II.

“Dude…what should I say?! Whats left to add?!” I asked…

“Damn TONY… speak the lore already… these fools need to know about the next level!” he replied impatiently

I sat down to read the posts to see where my SF brothers stand. Just reading through the thread brought about an influx of old skool memories

Memories of a time before 800 page FAQs and step by step combo guides.

Memories of a time before 'onscreen help or ‘context sensitive’ game menus.

Memories of a time when games didn’t have to have an end, or play fair with you…

Memories of arguing with parents about spending too much time in the ware palace.

Memories of adding fools to the database for future reference.

Memories of spending my college years at SFSU in the campus arcade

Memories of Metallica on stage with long hair ripping through Harvester of Sorrow >sigh<

Memories of jacasetnls over the top victory celebrations

Memories of playing the fabled Thomas and kicking his ass. (If only for a few games)

Memories of defiling the great temple known as Dennys

Memories of taking fools bus fare and lunch money as they tried just one more time

Memories of sending legions of fools back to Remedial to work on their basics

Today I share a brief moment in time which jcasetnl will never let me forget

I do mean. never

Oakland, CA:

Jcase and Phil (the deadest homie of them all) are credited with introducing me to the game of SF2. Phil brought the knowledge, but stepped back as his disciples took his knowledge, disposed of it, and elevated to a new plateau. (Not to deride Phil any fool who can finish Ultima 4 has his name scribed in the Great Book of Wareplay Eternal his 8bit skillz were indeed legendary on both NES and C64 alike)

For a brief period of time after the release of SF2, I was able to hold my own against any and all challengers. I didnt lose often and when I did lose I was able to evolve and return with higher standard. My skills, reflexes, and timing were polished to a point that I have since been unable to duplicate

I was also quite the arrogant bastard especially where SF2 was concerned. (…and rightfully sohehe) Trash talking was a huge component of my game. To this day I am amazed that I didnt end up in a garbage can somewhere in the back alleyways of Oaklands Chinatown

Woe to the fool who walked up to a machine with a gamepro in hand or a move list scrawled on a napkin. He would be the recipient of verbal abuse that would make the likes of a Navy Seal ring the bell of shame

I often turned this attitude toward the homies as well as Jcase and I would often exchange pleasantries after our matcheshehe

After a while, Jcase stepped away from challenging me and concentrated on his own game. He would often step in to trade rounds with me while I reloaded on bagel dogs and Sunkist, or made a food run to the local Wendys. In my mind, this was the white flag that I had been waiting for. I had established myself as the dominant World Warrior.

Of course, I had no clue that he was studying my habits, patterns, techniques, tendencies I also had no clue that my style was so readily obvious. Apparently JCase had noticed my fatal flaws flaws that other opponents recognized but could do nothing about. (I had fairly quick reaction times, and the speed of the original SF2s game play gave me plenty of time to adapt to their attacks.) This coupled with the time he had been spending cross training at the OakTree was a dangerous combination

One afternoon he cruised into GameTown, stepped up to the SF2 machine that I had been occupying for what seemed like weeks without a valid challenge, plunked in his quarter, and hit the player 2 start button.

I believe that day I had decided to work on what we called advanced theory with Ken. (I often took breaks from playing Guile, as it was just too easy) I believe Jcase to be putting his newfound Guile devotions to the test.

Round 1 started as I faked a fireball and dug into his airborne ass with a dragon punch. (Oh how many rounds began this way, my old friends?!hehe) While not taking the round with a perfect, I was victorious and began one of my usual verbal celebrations.

Round 2 saw me relaxing myself a bit. In the olden days, we gave second rounds to our deserving opponents as a way of showing respect. The problem was, while I thought I was giving him second round, he actually took it from me. Toward the end of the round he began to read my every move and supply the appropriate counter for the situation. How many backfists in the mouth would it take for me to adjust my flow?? How many standing forwards or air throws would it take for me to adapt??

Round 3 began and for the first time in recent memory I was concerned that my opponent may actually get the best of me. I became tentative I was second guessing myself. I was hesitant and cautious perhaps too cautious.

Jcase sensed this and began the blitzkrieg. I found myself flipping around the screen in hopes of escaping the onslaught, in hopes of delaying the inevitable

I, like countless Ken/Ryu players before me, was being dissected by the consummate Guile player. As time wore on in the round, I began to stage a brief comeback, upper cutting any limb he would even think about sending my way doing my best to keep proper distance. Faking him into coming in and getting a fistful It was truly a see-saw matchup.

He seemed to have an answer for everything… he would take the hits, then bring the pain. The closing seconds of the round saw me in the corner, attempting to hold on for a few more seconds perhaps in hopes of being saved by Father Time.

It had become clear to me what I needed to do: I had a tactic of walking up to crouching opponents and throwing them. Remember that? Straight up walk up to a fool and toss em before their brain even processed Jcase had this move scouted, as I had used it on him religiously. (With MUCH success)

I made the madmans final attempt and moved in to deliver the final throw. As I rose and made my way toward my crouching nemesis, thoughts of my victory speech began streaming through my mind. “We choose to go the moon in this decade…”

Not two steps into my attempt to throw my unsuspecting opponent, I was greeted by a roundhouse flash kick, right smack on the forehead

eeeeeeewwwwwuuuuuhhhhhh was all I heard as Ken struck the ground lifeless and Guile began combing his ridiculous flat-top. It was the flash kick heard round the world

I was stunned, but muttered good shit nonetheless.

Of course, JCase being the great sport that he is proceeded to humiliate me with the greatest after match clown in recorded history.

Elated at the sight of his victory, he ran out of the arcade, directly into the middle of college avenue with his arms raised overhead in a V and screamed MOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOMBAT!!! at the top of his lungs.

All the while, staring toward the sky, spinning around in the middle of the street. MOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOMBAT!!!

(For those who dont remember, the ad campaign for the 16bit renditions of Mortal Kombat featured scores of kids running through desolate streets yelling Mortal Kombat in unison)

Cars and passers by had absolutely no idea how the balance of power had shifted that day, or the significance of his actions. In fact, most were peeved to see a young punk in the middle of the street yelling at the top of his lungs.

He returned to the arcade to find me in a ball on the floor of the arcade tears of laughter streaming down my face

I had been handed the fattest slice of humble pie in my game playing career.

Big props to Jcasetnl, Jay, Frank, the crews from GameTown, OakTree, Regency, Escapade, 2 Star liquor, SShack Redemption, Big Al, all my victims, and all those here in the forums today who took the time to read about a personal piece SF history.

Much love to the dead homies, to the Commodore Amiga, to the old skool warez scene, and to anyone who picked up a controller when it was called a joystick and had one big ass red button.

Im OUT

-Tesco
"Tony"

70

Is that THE Eggo from Gamefan magazine posting?!

71

Old skool - mad skillz.

First of all, you new skool fools need to read that shit twice on weekdays and three times on sunday and take notes. That was consumate old skool as it has never been told nor will ever be spoken again. You need to study that shit, pay attention and recognize.

Damn dude, even till this day I get slapped around by your technique.

I need to head to the ticket counter for Redemption…

<>!!sEGa!!<>

  • jon
72

This matchup is pretty hard for Guile. Good ryu players will sweep your low forward and roundhouse with a low roundhouse. They can see the move come out and react.

Anyway, try walking backwards to start, throwing nothing but fast sonic booms in the projectile war. See if you can draw him out into jumping to come get you. If you have him jumping towards you, you’ll most likely win.

If he doesn’t jump towards you, you’re going to have to keep throwing sonic booms till he falls asleep, then jump with a late roundhouse to kick him once in the head. Then proceed to run away and guard the lead. This match is all about getting a lead (no matter how minor) and holding it. Time is your best friend.

Once you’ve got Ryu jumping, then you can low fierce, low strong (it will whiff) then immediately throw (Ryu’s jumping RH with mysteriously miss), low jab, standing RH, standing forward if he’s right on top of you, air throw, low forward or RH if he’s far, or jump early RH. Once in a while, you might want to block too. Basically, whenever Ryu jumps on you, do something different, so he never knows what to expect and when to RH.

If you’re losing, then you have to play close range and throw the hell out of him. This should be your second choice. Never play close range if you can avoid it. Here, throw a slow sonic boom and follow it. If he matches with a fireball, backhand or low forward (he’ll have time to block), but it buys you time to setup another boom.

A good OG trick is after doing a low forward which they block, immediately do a backhand. If they try to throw a fireball, you’ll hit them clean before the fireball comes out. Your goal is to get them to block a sonic boom with you right behind it. Then you just walk in and throw. The alternate is walk in and at the last second low RH. Or you can walk in, pause, then walk forward and low RH. Walk in, standing jab, throw. Endless variations of cheese. If he spin kicks, low fierce. If he fireballs, block it, then jump towards him with a fierce, low strong, razor kick in case he throws another.

If Ryu corner traps you with fireballs, it can get really bad. Try razor kicking out - cutting off his head like a guillotine and going through the fireball. Or else trade a backhand with the fireball just to throw off his timing. Good Ryu players will back you into the corner and make you block at least 5 fireballs every time you fall down. If you jump up, they’ll alternate fireball speed till you finally fall on one. You do not want to be in the corner against a good Ryu player.

Yes.

73

thx a lot man, i really appreciate it. i’ve beem playing a lot and sorta learning those things, yes i’ve found out that time is my friend. i mostly use low strong, walk stand fk, thrust knee, jump early rh, and walk under throw against jumping. however how do catch in airthrow? in a projecticle war, even though im throwing fierce booms, wouldn’t i lose the war? because i end up getting guard damaged, cuz fb comes out faster than boom? i thoguht ryus game plan was to keep guile out. (unless hes way behind in life)

74

When you walk under the guy, if you’re directly under him do standing forward kick with the stick neutral. After you knock him out of the air a few times with this he’ll roundhouse early to counter it (the roundhouse has priority I think). So in that case, when you’re right under him, let the stick go neutral again and wait for the roundhouse. The moment he sticks his foot out you go into crouch - not defensive crouch - because you’ll go into your block animation. Just duck under the kick, which will wiff, and when he lands you can chuck him, do a couple low strongs, etc.

If you connect with the standing forward you have to move up so that once again you’re right out of the range of his roundhouse. So basically you need to know fairly precisely where he’ll land because you have to position and charge as soon as possible.

On the corner traps it’s basically the same thing. In WW Guile could corner trap like a bastard but by the time of Super Turbo they’d added some delay to the sonic boom and taken a lot of the range and priority out of the flash kick. Also, of course, his normal moves got ball-chopped. Oh yeah, and they added a slight delay after the flash kick. <sigh> Speaking of which, when you do his super flash kick, there’s no delay afterwards so if you completely wiff it and the guy walks up to toss you worse, you can immediately follow with another flash kick. It won’t work against the better players who are wise to it but sometimes it can turn a match around.

Hope this helps.

  • j
75

The ONE thing I remember about the “Old Skool” S.F. scene were the Fights that occured outside the Arcade/Round the Local “Corner” after someone lost a match. It was pretty good, actually.

…

76

This is the greatest thread ever! :slight_smile:
Thanks to this thread , i will download every single st movie from evo which i otherwise never would`ve done…

77

Back in the day… (LONG!)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh my God, that was funny! Excellent post, my friend.

PS: The death sound effect of Ken was to a tee. Also reminds me on how Ken and Ryu used to say “Shoryuken” (All You Can) like they meant it in those days. The true sign of old school :slight_smile:

eeeeeeewwwwwuuuuuhhhhhh
–The Real Ken

78

As many have said before me, best thread on SRK. Good shit jcasetnl. What up Eggo, Dragonmaster Alex from the OG #gf_tavern oldschool in the heazy.

79

You’re right that you can’t go head up against fireballs with booms. So the key is to know when the fireball is coming and already have an answer for it with a normal. And of course, you can’t connect a normal unless you’re close to your opponent…

But if you use the same normal over and over you’ll obviously get factored and filed away. So mix it up, but more importantly, watch what your opponent does in response to your setups. Some guys, after you shut down a fireball with a backfist, for example, will always jump at you as soon as he recovers. And because of the positioning I knew I could always do a walk under and either do standing forward or let the roundhouse wiff and hit him on the way down. I can also “take the hit” and throw him. In some cases I could jump and chuck him out of the air. He’s expecting me to go for the wiff/low hit thing, so he holds off hitting roundhouse and leaves himself wide open.

They jump forward and immediately realize it was a mistake, but in the heat of the match they can’t adapt and overcome their “instinctive” response. My reaction time was middle-of-the-road at best so I had to know what was coming in advance. Quick players, even with often subpar gameplans, always gave me the toughest time until I took their game into the lab for analysis.

This is all ryu/ken stuff though. Especially against good rushdown Balrogs you better have something else up your sleeve.

  • j
80

Re: Back in the day… (LONG!)

That reminds me of when the slower kids would call Guile, “gully” and Ryu was still called “rye-you”, back when kids would have half-hour long debates about what make and model car the bonus round Ride was or point to the old man with the cane on Bison’s stage and claim he was Sheng Long.

PISS-O-PISS-O-P-PISS-OFF. Who’s old skool enough to remember what fighting game that comes from? Heh heh.

Damn this thread brings back memories. Back in the Street Fighter 1 days I used to show other kids how to do the special moves in exchange for nachos and burritos…heh heh… information is power. Then they would do the same with other kids. Talk about a pyramid scheme.

I can still beat Heavy Barrel on one quarter, though. I can usually still get at least to Stage 30 in Galaga. And it would not be wise to ever throw money down against me in Moon Patrol or Spy Hunter. All that aside, I’d go so far to claim you might be totally insane to ever challenge me on 8-bit, that is, unless you can beat Metroid from start to finish in under 20 minutes or beat Gradius without any codes… heh heh. :smiley: :cool:

peace - j