this right here is a big part of the problem…
This isn’t new, it’s always been the general consensus. The fact that they added input delay to the game offline shows they were aiming for a certain play style.
Now, we can either show capcom that we love it or hate it. I for one have stopped playing the game, and only support pre-SF4 capcom fighting games. I suggest that everyone who is also sick of the sad state of SFV do the same.
this is a very good way of putting it.
I feel that I would need much better reactions than I currently have just to begin playing the sort of game I want to play. I see Daigo, Ricki, and other reactive players doing amazing things all the time, but as somebody who can’t consistently beat dash-ins/jump-ins/EX nonsense on reaction, I feel I’m forced to play a very different game than them.
(and even at the highest levels of play, we’re seeing much less reactive play in V than IV.)
1-hit confirms and wakeup timings that are difficult to react to definitely contribute to the warped learning curve as well. you need to either 1(play a character who doesn’t need to worry about these things, 2(be born with amazing reactions, or 3(spend hundreds of hours in training mode - just to to have a chance.
unfortunately some players will defend these mechanics to the death because they’ve already grinded them in training mode and want to subject everybody else to a similarly miserable experience.
This is a real good post!
do you think there is anway to save it? I also put the game down for now,
Yeah I’ve always said and I still fully believe that the best way to make a fighting game is to cater to the intermediate players. They are the lifeblood of a fighting game franchise. They are the ones that put in lots of time but lack the talent to be high level. They make up the vast majority of the player base.
They are what beginners who play the game turn into. It’s dumb to base a game on beginners. But it’s equally dumb to base it on experts (3s) a game more like sf4 but without the divekicks and crouchtechs and crazy option selects.
The execution in sf5 is probably the hardest execution I’ve had to try and acclimate to. Things like CH confirms and reacting to quick and backrise, jab jab confirms, 1 hit confirms, trying to AA with 9-10 frame AA’s in a game where jumps are 2 frames faster on average, the input delay is 2 frames more and dashes are much faster.
That’s why the game doesn’t feel honest or fun to play a lot of times. You just come up with to many fundamental situations that can’t be reacted to unlike the old school. In the old school, footsies were king, you couldn’t react well to them either, but at least the risk versus reward was more in line with incremental footsie damage, not random Jump or dash damage.
Funnily enough, I actually prefer anime games simply because lots of there shot can’t be reacted to very well so the game is almost all guessing and reactive but in a completely different way from streetfighter 5. Many/most of the guesses in anime games are relatively safe till you put yourself in a bad spot (or they put themselves in a bad spot) so anime games are more positional and aggressive which feels good. Skullgirls is like that. Yes the best p,ayers can react to more stuff (like it should be) but they can’t react to everything but it’s still easy to set a trap for even the best players to wander into.
Sf5 to me may as well just be a reaction test cause that’s the litmus test to be able to play the game:
Can you footsie while still being able to AA even at high level?
Can you one hit confirm?
Can you stop dashes on reaction?
Can you 2 move confirm?
Congratulations. You can now pick just about any character in the roster and get to like 15k lp
No smarts needed besides doing the obvious shit.
I don’t care if players are faster than me, that’s fine. I just don’t think a game should cater to those players specifically.
The fastest players always have an inherent advantage so I don’t see the reason for making it even more pronounced.
The people that like this kind of gameplay tend to be the ones with slightly less special ability but slightly more hitconfirm reactions. They start to equate “skill” with speed of reaction alone. And anything that doesn’t require super fast reactions gets deemed scrubby. This is why they hate easy confirms cause it puts everyone more or less on the same fundamental level and those reactive players don’t have such an inherent advantage.
It’s a problem I find perplexing because true pro play should adapt no matter the circumstances, so there should be no reason to design a game strictly for the fastest reactive players since the will always have the reactive advantage.
To me it’s the same shit as players good at one frame links to think that a fighting game is scrubby just because the bnbs don’t require 1 frame links and so they are “to easy” to autopilot. Forgetting that a fighting game is about psychology and out thinking the opponent. Not how fast your twitch is or whether you can consistently hit a 1/60th of a second timing.
SSF4 would have turned out the way AE did, the engine is the same and the change that allowed for just-frame block situations already in (the same fix that took away unblockable Ultra setups from vanilla allowed the UB setups in SSF4 series). So just evaluate SSF4 character properties in light of what we know to be possible in AE2012 and ask yourself if it’s a better game. Opinions saying Super was better are actually saying “I liked what we knew about the game back then”.
Despite being an intermediate player, I enjoy playing SFV. Ultra isn’t bad, but things like focus attack, one frame links and vortex on wake up made me lost interest on the game and I dropped it. Defeats were frustrating and wins were empty, but I can understand why people like this game, it’s just not for me.
I agree that GG is the best fighting game franchise nowadays (and I also love it) but Xrd and SFV are very different games. Not everyone likes airdashers and I also know plenty of people that only plays anime fighters. I think it’s foolish to bash fighting games you don’t enjoy and tell people to play X instead, it does more harm than good.
SF4 = 5 course meal when you can only finish 1.
SF5 = Side order your friend gave out after coughing and dribbling over it.
Everyone should play Injustice 2.
Im sorry but what the fuck was wrong with focus attack?? it gave players alot more options in diffrent situations
Personally speaking, I didn’t like the idea of a mechanic that not only fucked zoning and single hit attacks universally across the cast, but allowed dumb shit like safe DPs, which even GG makes an exception for and doesn’t let you cancel out of on whiff or block. Not to mention that the usefulness was very different across the cast depending on range and start-up, which incidentally didn’t help low tiers with the stuff focus attacks were supposed to help with. Incidentally, I kind of have a similar problem with V-Reversals. Enjoy your S1 Bison V-Reversals that whiffs on some normals because the hitbox is fucked, while Mika gets a godlike one. If the idea is to have a universal mechanic that gives all characters the same options, it should be identical in my opinion.
I hear ya, but it cost 2 bar! it was nothing you could just “throw out”, what options do I have in 5? just take all the safe on block shit and guess
Im not saying we need it in 5, but the game needs more option imo
The game needs more variety and flexibility. I personally didn’t like FAs, but they provided diversity of playstyles within each character’s framework. In SFV, if I, say, fight an Alex, I don’t feel much of the player’s personality in their playstyle. They will all do the same okis and neutral and combos. I feel I’m fighting Alex, not someone controlling Alex.
That has to do with dumbed down character design at least as much as it has to do with the lack of an interesting universal mechanic, though.
I liked the focus attack alot. You can get rid of fadc since bads were so bad at baiting reversals, but focus attacks were a very awesome mechanic to me. The only change i would make to the focus is a universal focus beater sweep or st.hp that way focus cant just be autopiloted to beat any ranged poke… more thought would need to be used when up close.
they have to realize that they cannot continue dumbing down the game, players are leaving…
im sort of neutral on focus attacks. they were kind of dumb at times but sometimes they were kinda cool.
i do like the combo extension features of it.
red focus can die in a fire though.
I own both and the transition between SF3 to (Ultra)SF4 is like going from a Sentra to a GTR…Going from SF4 to SFV is somewhat of a downgrade…like going to a 370Z. It’s good game but (Ultra)SF4 is at the top of the food chain. I miss the focus attacks, it’s also nice to have extra characters…USF4 has 44, SFV has 23 including the DLC which run ridiculously expensive.
One problem I had with FADC was the execution. GG does this waaaaay better. Makes SFIV feel bureaucratic.
two buttons and dash, yup very hard execution…