I’m liking the direction of the new mechanics. It looks like it will play more like the older games in many ways in terms of feel, whereas SF4 fails to do that in my book.
I’m curious about the whiff animation on throws, so no more crouch tech?
As far as has been explained, when you do throw while crouching you automatically go into throw animation.
You might be able to option select tech other ways though.
I hope that air throws are techable.
Can you still tech while holding down-back? If you can then the OS is still there, it’s just easier to punish and can’t be weaved into your attacks. Which still sounds like a pretty good nerf.
I believe as soon as you press the throw button sequence, you stand immediately.
No the option select is gone, simply because a normal does not come out. You always get the throw animation even if you tech holding down back.
Although, what this does mean though is that there may be crouching kara-throws in the game.
The OS for being able to block any low or tech any throw is still there, just not the one for getting a crouching normal for when an attack isn’t blocked or a throw isn’t teched.
Depends how the game registers throw techs now if I understand the old engine the game just registers your throw input (directionals + buttons) as a tech for a specified frame duration and lesser frames when in crouch.
Getting throw animation now while in crouch destroys tech like Momochi’s meaty low attack delayed block/tech OS.
That wasn’t the problem with crouch techs though and it has existed in multiple games.
Assuming the throw/break system is not changed, then they most probably didn’t change throw techs, they just made down + throw also an input for throw. In SFIV and many other games, you NEED to be standing to perform a throw, otherwise you’ll get the next highest move in the priority queue. In SFIV it was cr.lk. In 3S it was cr.lp. If you did a special that ended on down you’d get that special.
If the system works like SFIV, then there’s absolutely no reason you can’t hold down and tech a throw. The only difference will be that if there’s no throw to tech, you’ll get the throw animation instead of the highest priority move of your cr.LK + LP (+ what ever else you OS’d) input.
EDIT:
This leads to an interesting question -
Which has more priority? Throw, or V-Skill? If Ryu does down + throw + V-Skill, does it count as an SGGK OS?
I’ve been wondering this myself.
Although technically, wouldn’t the name “SGGK” be wrong since it’s no longer OSing with a kara-grab (aka the “Slide Grab” part of Slide Grab Gyakunitaku Kick).
The only thing I’m not to happy about is the lack of hard knockdown. I think it’s just mixup whining plain and simple. It’s been in since the oldest school of streetfighters. I really liked alpha 3 except for its lack of knockdowns. Being able to tech out of damn near every knockdown in the game never sat well with me.
I really like the fact that normals do chip, but I still think that this might skew the game more towards blockstrings rather than actual mixups… But I’ll have to wait to see how much chip these blockstrings actually do before I know.
I really liked the focus attack mechanic in general, just not the ability to cancel dps relatively safely. So that mechanic being gone makes me sad as they could have just done what ggxrd did which is to make dps not cancel able on block… Problem solved.
Having said that I’m now much more looking forward to this game. The fact that it looks faster is a great great thing. I’m also loving the target combos. Nash is the only character that is looking interesting to me so far… Those combos and blockstrings are amazing.
When I heard that parry was returning I wanted to facepalm. But then I realized that it’s only ryu and it’s only on activation of v whatever and that makes it so much better. Plus it looks that the parry has a wiff animation which is by far the best thing ever. I wouldn’t mind a universal parry mechanic with a whiff animation. In fact I’d probably be all over that as an advocate.
If capcom can actually improve upon ggpo (and I have no reason to think that they couldn’t since ggpo is the resultant efforts of one man) then I’m so in. Either way I’m in but an improved ggpo would be so damned awesome and it would basically FORCE all up and coming fighting game makers to institute rollback of some sort since capcom is the general standard bearer for fighting games.
All I can say is kudos to labzero and mike z for putting it into skullgirls which paved the way for it to be in KI which has probably a lot to do with capcom finally putting it into their flagship fighting game series.
Everything is looking pretty good.
This removal of crouch tech invokes two questions:
1.) Will this imply throws potentially have a reduced range/reach?
2.) Can we expect throws to have an increased startup from what we are accustomed to?
Compensating for a reduced ability to readily tech strikes me as kinda likely in ways we are yet to get real information on. Throws have always been an interesting point of contention, particularly among beginners where it can foster frustration.
Another valid question for SF5 is how wide the tech window is. Obviously startup/reach/window (and in same cases invulnerability - i.e. the potential to be snuffed OUT of an executed throw as it starts-up) all factor into the effectiveness of the throw game so I’m very curious to see how these aspects have been addressed or considered.
This is something most likely to be revealed once experienced players get some time with the game at E3. Should be interesting.
Focus is alright. There are things I like about it, and things I don’t like.
Lack of hard knockdowns I like though. Cut down on the whole, play lame and go for a knockdown sort of style. Now it looks like they toned down the defense, and toned down the offense that was repudiative. It should make for a more balanced game.
I don’t mind hard knockdowns, just the ones in sf4 are too long.
Blanka’s f.throw is 81f, his u1 is 87~
Decapre EX hands to u1 is so long, that I time a setup by doing a jump back, a jump back then a spiral, then another jump forward for the actual crossup j.hp.
One of the things that I think helps make the game look somewhat faster, despite moving at the same speed as IV, is the fact that stuff does more damage.
My main worry though is that damage starts getting toned down, either during testing, or in patches post-release.
Also, fuck hard knockdowns, didn’t need them in 3rd Strike and this game is fine with them having just about the same rules (which is, I believe only on supers).
Im not a big fan of hard knockdown stuff even though Ibuki was one of the few characters in 3S that had something other than a super that caused hard knockdown. Which even then you could only really take advantage of it with something nasty in the corner since it threw the opponent far away on hit.
Focus, meh. Was boring to me. Parries for the most part should stay in 3S since the game was specifically designed around them, but I like the idea of Ryu specifically having a toned down version of them.
Oh and yeah that’s why I went on my poverty game binge for a while. Skullgirls and KI really got me to realize that fighting games can one day have netcode strong enough to allow people to prepare and become strong at tournaments without having to live an hour from a strong local tournament scene. Which means more ways to practice and to have less people who have no idea what they’re doing. If you’re having some trouble learning things in your local scene or have a specific matchup issue for a character that no one plays, you always got online.
KI has a forced 3 frames of delay and Skullgirls allows you to adjust the GGPO delay to your choosing. Hopefully there’s something with some variety to what the delay is or a very minimum delay. Having an a rollback netcode with only 2 frames of delay or allows you to adjust the delay would be GDLK
Allowing quick rise on sweep and throw does this one big adjustment to okizeme pressure: no more cross-up shenanigans with characters like Vega, Bison, Blanka, etc. They most likely wouldn’t have charge in time to go for their specials (or Blanka’s asinine Ultra 1 50/50) to derp out damage on players anymore. This is just another step away from stupid vortex and gimmick strategies. A good thing.
I see both vortex and strong footsie pokes as “derping out damage” I don’t know why anyone would consider walking back and forth with the God normals and walk speed like chun and bison/ rose/ fei etc etc as somehow being super skilled and vortex which generally requires the same thing but with worse pokes and walkspeed(barring akuma and cammy) to be derp, and that’s more an akuma and cammy being dumb thing than the strat itself.
This is coming from a chun and ibuki main. 2 characters from opposite sides of the spectrum.
Having said that, I do feel like knockdowns that combo into one another, ala vortex, needs to go. If only because knockdown into knockdown xn can be boring from a spectatorial point of view. I also think that hard knockdowns should have much less frame advantage as they currently do in sf4. Not from a balance perspective but from a departure from the action perspective.
Hard knockdowns can still be applied via throws and things that won’t combo from each other barring big expenditure of meter.
As far as focus being a boring mechanic I’ve never seen it that way. It gives me to many options as chun specifically to be boring and gives me more ways to combo into ultra for it to be boring. It has 3 charge levels that can be forward or back canceled on contact, some of which give plus frames on block.
The biggest disappointment of focus to me was that breakers at first were almost all extremely unsafe on block or required meter, making them bad to actually use as breakers on anything but a hard read, and the fact that focus could be fadc for unsafe invincible moves like dps and stuff.
As far as it making pokes unsafe to just throw out that’s one of the things I loved most about it. I like checks and balances in games and big huge fuck off pokes being balanced by an armored counterattack seemed very fair to me.
I actually thought it was one of the most balanced features of sf4. You couldn’t spam it. If you messed up and guessed wrong you had to dash cancel backwards towards your corner and lose space.
The only thing I really could have asked more for, which is something I felt should have definitely been in, is for focus breakers to universally be safe on block and have decent range. That’s the only balance I really felt that focus needed besides the aforementioned points.
Parries did this so much better though because of the whole high/low mechanic that means that you had to make sure you were parrying the correct way.
Then there’s the fact that SFIII actually had pokes with decent hitboxes to deal with.