Because…
But seriously, if the Fight Genre provided most of the information in-game, I can’t imagine anyone silly enough that would object to such a thing.
I imagine it’s more enjoyable for the community to discuss and share ideas and tips on how to apply your characters’ moveset rather than on how to pull it off.
Tutorials doesn’t prevent community building. Skullheart is a great community for instance.
Tutorials don’t provide all of the answers, what they do is ease players into the basic concepts of each character and mechanic. You’ll still need to look up stuff to find out how to improve.
Tutorials build communities because players who previously would have been overwhelmed at the start might continue to play. I’ve seen it happen first hand. Fighting games in general have a very high skill floor requirement which means new players get discouraged very quickly.
Information such as “what is a high low?” “how do I block?” “what is a safe jump?” and “how does frame data work and what is my characters frame data?” only provide a small amount of information. It doesn’t tell you things like “What is the best safe jump vs this character in this situation?” “What am I doing wrong in this replay?” “What is the best approach to this matchup?” “Is there any cool new techniques or setups you’ve found with this character?” That kind of information you can only find by asking real people.
God the trolling is outstanding here. Y’all want Capcom to tell people to “stop mashing” also? Because that’s 90% of what casual players do. and @Aquashark seems like you didn’t read my closing sentence which means my opinion of you is also very low. It’s not fucking elitism, it’s fucking “get with the times and learn to use the internet”. Don’t just sit around and wait for your Nintendo Power subscription to come in the mail to figure out how to do a 3 hit combo without jumping.
I suppose I should elucidate by saying Capcom doesn’t want people to take their fighting games seriously. They want people to play their fighting games, then buy the rest of their games. They would’ve gone bankrupt a long time ago if they depended on selling fighting games. But let’s not go on a tangent here.
Personally, I would like to see specific character tutorials. Something that Blazblue excels at. If V-triggers gonna give characters their own mechanics than I feel this will be necessary.
I wouldnlove to see something in game that tells people some basic strategies to use vs fireball characters. Like basic ways to get in. This would help prople out infinitely more than nonsense like ultras.
This
Couldn’t agree more
Give me a in depth (KI style) tutorial (excluding the frame data) and I’ll be good. I can look up the frame data online. The way KI managed their use of frame data is…kinda bad. I still don’t know how long a dash, jump or pre-jump frames are.
Excuse my lack of proper etiquette here as I’ve done things similar to what you’ve been spouting in the past so I may seem hypocritical, but I find the entire reasoning behind your point completely ridiculous and idiotic. The information to a game should be available in said game, other genres don’t require such in-depth tutorial systems as a lot of other games are very intuitive, but I believe fighters are a lot harder to come to terms with when learning the game and understanding mechanics.
I myself started playing fighters seriously with SF4, and because of it’s complete lack of tutorial modes I was unable to grasp how the game was played properly. I had no idea about the concepts of spacing, set-ups, frame data, reversal windows, FADCs and other such components that make up the large portion of SF4s meta. I would have adjusted to the game quickly if it offered appropriate tutorials, but I ended up having to use 3rd parties to learn the game, which in itself is flawed game design in my opinion.
An example of a game I’ve very recently picked up Guilty Gear Xrd has a lot of challenges and tutorials that help expand core knowledge about the games mechanics and the way it is played, and I’m now fairly competent at it and I can compete at the least. This was all picked up and learnt within a week, and by no means is the game easy to play; it’s just accessible because of how the information is displayed. Ease of play and accessibility are two different terms to me, and if it helps players buy the game and become a fan of it and part of the community, I’m 100% all for the increase to in-depth tutorials modes within fighting games.
I dunno why you wanna hide frame data. Stuff like that should be shown in game.
That said, frame data needs to be presented in a better manner. In other words, dynamically detail all the frames of the move from startup, active frames to recovery.
Might actually be better to show it as a bar over the character during training mode which indicates what state their in and how many frames it has (similar to Skullgirls’ hitstun bar).
As far as frame data goes. I’d rather have that online where I can look it up whenever I want and I can even save it a tablet or something and look up a move quick time during a match if need be. Hell even strat guides have frame data which to me is very important. Sure over time things change and the guide becomes less useful since things are changed and the occasional errors in it too.
The SFxT guide I bought really helped me. It showed everything, even had pictures of every single move each character had. It was great. I learned alot from that book. I still use it today from time to time. But if I can get the data and save it somewhere and bring it with me I can then start “theory” fighting and go over multiple situations and see what I come up with.
That and maybe they should put in vesper’s tutorial (the SF4 tutorial it’s real good. Got me all caught up with FG stuff).
Why look things up online when you can simply have them in game, with the training mode showing them to you while you practice.
Habit I guess. I’ve done it for SF4 and SFxT, it’s just comfort really. The way KI did it was really strange for me. Most of the data was there but the way it was presented was bad. Besides you can’t look at the data during a match in-game. With a tablet or something you can quickly look up something during a intermission or during a round real quick. Handy.
I liked that Injustice showed the frame data in the movelists. Shame that most of the listed frames weren’t accurate.
That’s what I like to read. I think proper tutorials give players the possibility to level up faster.
Physics, physics, physics! I want the new engine to have a foundation of physics on every level.
If you mean realistic physics, then FUCK NO. This just adds too many variables and makes the game less “predictable” in certain ways when it comes to characters interacting with each other.
I’d like parries back. Maybe have them as part of a groove/ism selection.
No gameplay dlc. All characters and modes should be part of the game you buy. Sell all the costumes and accessories you like.
Reduce/eliminate ridiculous option selects and plinking.
Have an input buffer for combos so 1f links are automatically 3 or so frames (this doesn’t need to be the same for reversals before anyone complains).
Dramatic battle mode. Not everything needs to be “srs biznis” all the time. Alpha 3 Dramatic Battle mode was a lot of fun with friends who aren’t “teh hardc0re FGC playaz”.
Use the powerup/“instinct” feature as a combo extender like Extend Force Cancel.
Give everyone a dive kick. trollpanda.gif
Psh… Buttercup please…
Removing Bullshit
This should be the top priority of SFV and is generally a non-balance issue in my eyes. Bullshit includes…
[list]
[] Non-rollback netcode or a netcode that drops inputs
[] Adding a proper modern training mode with full start-up and advantage information
[] Model and hitbox/hurtbox mismatching. Every single hit and hurtbox in the game should fully cover a character’s model and animation whenever feasible (I can accept a shorter hitbox on differing strengths of command grabs). These are far too common in SF4 series and if boxes need to be changed animations should be adjusted to match.
[] Shorter cinematic animations. I actually like quite a few of the ultra animations (Dudley’s, Abel’s, Adon’s, Bison’s, and more) but quite a number of them are simply too long like Siberian Blizzard and Megaton Press. Keeping them short and sweet should be the goal and pausing the timer both during the flash animation and after landing is a must this time around.
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Regarding the Combo System and Footsies
I think an entirely different approach needs to be taken from SF4 where optimal combos in most situations started off of jabs and in at least a few cases led character have essentially only one combo (e.g. Balrog’s cr.lpx2>cr.lkxxhp.Headbutt>Super/U1). I feel this was due to how limited footsie options were regarding mediums and heavy buttons. There are always going to be a single most damaging combo but those should be limited to very specific situations or landing a difficult poke to land like a st.hp. Regarding this there needs to be a unanimous design philosophy regarding normals and getting to damage like…
[list]
[] The length of a normal’s hitbox directly correlates to it’s start-up and recovery leading to a focus more on having an optimal length of use for each poking normal.
[] Increase the damage on medium and heavy normals but increase the combo scaling. I am of the opinion that combos should be short and sweet and resented the vortex-a-thon that AE:2012 became. Short, damaging combos disincentivise vortex usage without eliminating it, increase the importance of foosties to the core of the game, and make the game more enticing to newer players. Also limits jab centric combo design and importance.
[*] Max damage should cap at 50%. Gen’s Super>U1 was fucking awful
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If I had to pick a number of max damage combos it would take to kill a 1000 health character just using only max damage combos I’d say 3-4 would be the most comfortable because everyone is going to take poke and throw damage and with a 2-3 ratio you’re then down to only 1-2 chances to survive a full combo, not fun.
Anti-airs, Air Normals, Cross Ups, and Juggling
SF4 has shit anti-air, no way around it and starting combos with jump-ins was far too rewarding…
[list]
[] AA normals should have more active frames and smaller vertical hitboxes, much smaller; also increased active frames and shorter start up. There should be no circumstance where the active frames of a AA normal hitbox collide with the hurtbox of a jumping normal and anything less than a beneficial trade on behalf of the AA normal happens. To prevent these from being used in footsies hitboxes could be widened when frames are active.
[] Perhaps even add a small multiplier for damage when a grounded attack or an attack that begins its animation on the ground intercepts an airborne character.
[] Less lenient cross-up options. Ryu and Abel’s dj.mk are both a mile wide, can cross up, and do solid damage. Cross-up air normals should have shorter hitboxes in general to prevent a “one aerial button fits all” when dealing with grounded opponents. I also think a cross-up should not lead to max damage combos but around 30-40% at most.
[] Since my changes heavily discourage air attacks, jumping heavies should still do large amounts of damage and can be a way to do really high damage since they can be more effectively discouraged.
[*] The new juggle system shouldn’t lead to too much damage for characters that don’t rely on it heavily and never to max. Something like 20% maximum for Ryu who looks to not be reliant on juggling, 25% max for Chun-Li who looks to be more invested.
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Reliable discouragement of jumping should be easy and landing a jumping normal should be as rewarding in SF4 due to increased difficulty to do so.
Aggression, Counter-aggression, Game Speed/Pace, and Invulnerabilities
To be up front, I don’t think SF4 was too slow of a game; slower than most yes but too slow is something I disagree with. I think the problem had to do with a collection of issues that weren’t treated as part of a whole problem and were just dumped into making the game being slow…
[list]
[] Replace stun with guard break. Stun is a terrible mechanic and front loads to much reward for successful aggression on dealing damage and its presence, I find, is too discouraging when getting stunned. Guard break in Street Fighter has been both more visible and more balanced with rewarding offense. If your worried about Denjin being nerfed, they just make it so every single hit of it does guard damage beyond the maximum amount making it unblockable like in 3S.
[]A higher number of base frames for normals and specials. This has less to do with game speed and more to do with visual fidelity. Increasing the base number from 3 frames to 5 allows for more pleasant animation on the quickest animations and would help in playing online with a non-optimal connection since there would be more total frames to drop.
[] Reduce blockstun and recovery duration overall. This isn’t a “make more move positive” but that plenty of special moves have tonnes of blockstun to wait through before you can attempt to punish them. This creates the slow feeling for me the most but having blocking animations will help when dealing with this issue.
[] Reduce push-back on specials, especially projectiles. The projectile game in SF4 slows the pace to a crawl and eating one on block pushes your around 1/5th to 1/4th of the screen at times with a load of blockstun on top of it.
[] Limit special moves to one kind of total invulnerability (strike/throw/projectile) or upper/mid/lower invulnerability at most. For example, Ryu’s Shoryuken should have upper body invulnerability until the second active frame and a hitbox futher from the ground so it can be stuffed by low hitting normals. There should be an aggressive option to beat pretty much anything and only Supers should have access to full invulnerability if needed.
[] Remove invulnerability frames from back dashing and make it only airborne/unthrowable. Add short distance (half SFxT distance or less), strike invulnerable rolls on knockdown that can be punished when accounted for. Maybe even add a small amount of throw invulnerability on the beginning of forward dashes to add extra aggressive option though that might mess up grapplers.
[] I would like less of an increase to the maximum walk speed from SF4 and more of a raising of the minimum. Characters like Akuma and Yun are fast enough to me but grapplers like Zangief and Hugo are annoyingly slow. I’m fine with faster quick character but the focus should be on less variance in the walk speeds or a higher base speed.
[] All Supers should be at least -30 on block. Goddamn safe supers in SF4 are a goddamn plague.
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Throws, Knockdowns, and Unique Attacks
How to handle knockdowns was a big issue in SF4 and Omega did something cool and new with almost unanimous quick rise. The throw changes were a bit overzealous in my opinion however and regarding changes made for USF4 I have an opinion on unique attacks as well.
[list]
[] Change all proximity normals (close or far variations) into unique attacks with directional inputs. Up close variations hamper player control and potential utility of certain buttons e.g. Adon and Dan both had AA cl.hk in AE2012 but Dan had it changed to b.hk and Adon did not limiting his effectiveness at AAing players at a specific angle.
[] Multi-hit normals or unique attacks should be unsafe unless only the last hit connects. A single button press with the ability to break armour should have more risk than they carry in USF4 especially how easy breaking armour looks to be in the limited alpha build they have shown.
[] Hard knockdowns should be limited to Supers and I also feel command grabs should have them as well. Zangief doesn’t get optimal damage off of a heavy SPD but the hard knockdown is vital to make up for that sacrifice for damage.
[] Throws should have a shorter length and slower start-up so the fastest normals can stuff them when performed at the same time, something along the lines of only 1-2 frames more.
[] Universal air throw tech if air throws are present with their own whiff animation so we end up with jump crouch tech j.lk into cross-up combo.
[] Shorten the knockdown time for hard knockdowns and have a longer rising animation if possible. Shorter hard knockdowns both speed of the game and add more active play time and a longer animation will help with setting up meaties visually.
[*] Taunts are completely uncancelable for their full animation. No more coward taunts, if you want to taunt commit or have a freaking set up for one.
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Just more concessions to what I would think could add speed to the experience of SFV and make the game more user friendly.
And that’s all that has come to mind today. Feel free to pick apart my opinions and tell me I’m retarded or must have been force fed lead paint by my family when I was young.
If command grabs get HKD’s along with just supers then I believe they should possibly get an increase in recovery frames as well (maybe 5-10 more).