Makoto is considered top 4 on the standard list but you really gotta question if she’s truly that good when only a few super strong players win reliably with her. Top ranks of Dan rankings are like a black hole of no Makoto players lol
Depends on the format too. In team tourney having a Makoto is a great idea. In singles double Elim American style I’m not convinced she’s even top four. Too variable to win in those conditions. Would rather have Yang or Dudley in that format.
Also I definitely agree about raising Chuns hurtbox would do a lot to make her worse! Chun can get away with murder up close because so much just whiffs over her head.
I think Chun Vs Ken would be very close to 5-5 if he could reliably hit her with far strong when she’s crouching.
I LOVE 3s, but it is nowhere near the “Perfect” game my friend.
Isn’t the reason she doesn’t have too many good players for her is because her playstyle revolves heavily or reading or guessing right? And the fact the her defensive options are terrible?
There is no “perfect” fighting game. Period. IMHO 3S is the best but it’s not perfect. I think pretty much everyone who actually really plays and understands the game is in agreement that at least half the cast can win tournaments and that’s pretty damn good all things considered.
Depends on the Makoto. I notice a lot of U.S. players run her SA2 and basically just try to land her TOD and they know a few setups to land that. In general it’s not so much about reading but having really good reactions and you better be good good at plinking a 1 frame cancel. Her defense is pretty good but it’s all about having that reaction time.
Thats what I remember the tiers being back in the days. You had Rock, Paper, scissors, Ken, Chun and Yun. Then came Makoto.
I would like to see the parry mech come back. Exactly like CvS2 worked. Not 2 buttons and forward. Super jumps, safe roll, delayed wake ups.
One thing I noticed about the new Vesper video is when he talks about Ryu’s counter-hit fierce. It launches/dramatically increases hitstun. Isn’t this exactly how counter-hits worked in Alpha 3?
This would mean that there is a good chance this isn’t character specific, but system wide as a way to have set ups against people who get antsy from taking too much chip. That would be brilliant!
This is where Makoto SHINES
That said, some folks just can’t wrap their heads around the play style of Makoto.
It’s really like playing as a frenetic poisonous rat really.
It might have been mentioned in one of the previous pages, but I really grew to hate back dashing in SF4. And this is coming from somebody who mained Rose since 2009. 1-4 frames of full invincibility and then grab invincibility/airborne for like 20 frames total and just a small window of grounded vulnerability? Fuck that shit. I don’t wanna play a character in SF5 that has good block strings, building up the gray damage, then the other player back dashes twice and everything I worked for is gone because I did a command grab to cash in on the damage.
I’d rather have the back dash from SF3 where you’re completely vulnerable and you’re only back dashing to make space and for mind games. And along with that, maybe have advanced throw breaking where you can either tech SPDs or at least have a safe-ish answer to it that doesn’t require jumping or something higher risk like DP. Bringing up Rose again, her close MK really was a good idea in theory, but many command grabs reached further than the close distance she had to be at for her airborne MK to come out instead of the far one. So yeah, in that vain, It’d be great if there was some universal escape option for every character, or it was built into a special move of theirs, but you had to read the throw for it to work like that. It couldn’t just be “well I don’t want to take their pressure so I’m just going to back dash to safety” mindlessness.
And I do use standing OS on occasion which is garbage in its own right that you have to incorporate that to deal with derpy back dash mechanics. If you’re playing against a DP character, you’re leaving yourself wide open either for that, or to get hit by raw ultra which just makes you feel bad rather than teach you anything deep about the game. I do play respecting the DP, but if a player only back dashes on wake-up, then I end up feeling super dumb for letting them do it.
Another thing: how about we get a bad ass announcer again? I’m tired of the usual OTT Japanese announcer. Get Infinite back for the announcer job.
Get Mike from KI. That wold be awesome. As for backdashes…I’d say keep them but do some tweaks. Keep them invincible but lower the time they are airborne. so I’ll use Juri’s as an example.
I-frames 1-8, airborne frame 9-13 grounded frames 14-27. Or what you could do (for backdashes only) any move that hits you during your backdash (airborne frames) gives the aggressor KD’s properties of whatever move they used (save grabs obviously) that way there wouldn’t be any air resets of backdashes but you still would have to be fairly quick to capitalize on the read of the backdash.
Hopefully that won’t skewer backdashes but it won’t make attackers outright good.
Let’s imagine the counter hits are as deadly as it seems and then make backdashes in a counter hit state. Now we have something interesting ; if someone minds your backdash you’re in big trouble because he’ll be able to do a deadly combo.
Kinda what they did to dudley’s 6hp in ultra. If you backdash and the dudley knew it you’re losing half of your life. It’s not riskless anymore to backdash against him.
I don’t agree with any kind of backdash invincibility. It’s too scrubby and too easy to do to get out of pressure.
A far simpler solution is just make it so that you can quickrise from anything except supers and very few specials. In 3S if they throw you or get a knockdown and have to dash in to get you, you quickrise and backdash out and your out of their range. It doesn’t work if they’re right on top of you.
How’s about a “focus parry”? The idea would be that if you time the focus attack it’ll function like a parry. You take no white damage and you wouldn’t have to dash cancel out of it. It’d automatically stop allowing you to freely attack, just like in 3rd strike. If you don’t want to risk a parry, then you can do a regular focus attack by holding the buttons. I think that’ll work for everyone. Skilled players will have parrying while noobs like myself can just use a normal focus.
Yes I acknowledged that first point didn’t I? And what I mean is that if you go for a parry focus which is, and miss time you’ll get hit. You wont go into a normal focus attack should you fail. You must focus parry during specific frames. You either normal focus right off the bat or go for a focus parry. You don’t go from failing a focus parry then being saved by it becoming a normal focus.
I see what you mean now.
But its still an awful idea really. If I don’t choose to try and completely negate your poke with parry (which is already a point of debate), then I can just go ahead and do the focus which takes no real timing and if its like SF4’s parry I can dash out of it if my opponent didn’t actually go for a poke. This would ruin any mid range strategy the game had.
On top of that having too many things tied to one input or variations of one input is already a problem with focus attacks.
How about something new that has nothing to do with Parries and Focus Attack?
Hell with it nvm then. Trying to see a way parries could be brought back for those who like it while still keeping a mechanic that isn’t to difficult for newer players seeing as how Capcom wants a more user friendly game. Looks like parry’s are dead which I’m cool with. That shit made 3rd strike harder than it needed to be IMO because certain characters ( Makoto ) can’t do well if you haven’t mastered parrying.
IMO the backdash in SF4 was a much stronger “in game mechanic” than focus attack. It changed approaches to certain match ups, and in this day, has changed the meta game a lot. Seems in high level play, as soon as somebody gets hit by a poke or something, they backdash away. I bet 4 would be more interesting if you couldn’t get away with that thanks to the invincibility and airborne frames. If you want to be airborne, jump. If you want to be invincible, use your cool reversal, spend the 2 bar, then backdash to safety.
But my bigger problem with if it’s included is seeing how gray health heals in this game is about as fast as focused damage, but it seems to be a bigger part of SF5’s offense game, and a backdash like we have in 4 would totally nullify it. Because some characters might have way faster backdashes that go further while others have backdashes that leave them way more vulnerable, so you wouldn’t do it anyway. But there’s been more than one time where I’ve seen a Zangief player backdash on wake-up into SPD or some garbage and it’s totally legit play.
Thx for the reasonable response @FengShuiEnergy I’d approve of a compromise, but I just don’t want backdashing being considered a “mechanic” at all. You backdash to create space and that should be it.