Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

[Evil_Canadian]

started a new account to get some alex training in… and holyhell there’s tons of ragequitters in the lower bracket.

There’s tons of ragequitters in every bracket!

[twocoins]

Lol, wrong board, but yeah. I’m in platinum with my main, and i don’t go through this many ragequitters. In supersilver now, but every other match is a rage quitter.

[NeoBlood]

Or just learn to play around that weakness.
Every character with a command throw in the game has several ways to approach and usually some strong pokes.

If you don’t like having to play that way, don’t play those characters.
Or whine and be shitty.

+1

Also keep in mind certain characters have more V-reversal stocks than others, Geif included. Although I will say that V Reversals in general seem weakest in the situations where you’d like to use them the most. And in Geif’s position, some times he REALLY relies on his V-trigger to get something going in a match-up.

[learis1]

What do you think if being hit out of a foward dash caused a counterhit just like being hit out of backdash. Would change the meta significantly. Might make gook poking characters too strong.

[ArtVandelay]

I think the game itself is fucking fine, they just need to hire me to tell them where they fucked up.

[drskull]

I think the game itself is fucking fine, they just need to hire me to tell them where they fucked up.

They will gladly hire you if you are willing to accept fightmoney. broke ass capcom.

[DRCsyntax]

The whole point of this game was to get rid of people’s bad habits from 4 and have your decisions carry more weight.

This right here; this is a joke right? Street Fighter has been on a downward spiral of “let’s empower scrubs” since 4 first came out.

I’ll honestly say I hadn’t considered the possibility of the armor not being on the start up frame; so there’s that; but I’ve already adjusting since posting that to not fall into it anymore.

As with any possibility (online being the issue) I’ve “burned bar” without the character so much as moving. It just doesn’t…seem…like it’s supposed to happen? I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me; maybe it is, maybe it’s online, maybe I’m just not seeing where the disconnect it.

[Tebbo]

Or just learn to play around that weakness.
Every character with a command throw in the game has several ways to approach and usually some strong pokes.

If you don’t like having to play that way, don’t play those characters.
Or whine and be shitty.

+1

Also keep in mind certain characters have more V-reversal stocks than others, Geif included. Although I will say that V Reversals in general seem weakest in the situations where you’d like to use them the most. And in Geif’s position, some times he REALLY relies on his V-trigger to get something going in a match-up.

Yeah I just find it funny it’s like all these people say they want to play, they want to play.

But when it comes down to it they’d rather bitch and moan than do what the good players do: learn how to play the game.
The idea that the game can somehow magically be something else that pleases them more is juvenile.

It’s the idea that patches are coming. It keeps their dreams alive. “It’ll change”.
Instead of how it is if you play an older game “This is the game, play it”.

The whole point of this game was to get rid of people’s bad habits from 4 and have your decisions carry more weight.

This right here; this is a joke right? Street Fighter has been on a downward spiral of “let’s empower scrubs” since 4 first came out.

I’ll honestly say I hadn’t considered the possibility of the armor not being on the start up frame; so there’s that; but I’ve already adjusting since posting that to not fall into it anymore.

As with any possibility (online being the issue) I’ve “burned bar” without the character so much as moving. It just doesn’t…seem…like it’s supposed to happen? I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me; maybe it is, maybe it’s online, maybe I’m just not seeing where the disconnect it.

Yeah the reason for this is because you’re making up your own special rules in your head, “I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me…”.
Well sorry dude but that’s how the game works (and it isn’t at all strange). You can either whine about it or actually play the game.

[NeoBlood]

V frames shows the armor starting on frame 3. So, that tells me to get jabbed out of it, you are either getting hit with meaty jab/grab trying to use it on your wake-up, or trying to use it close quarters on a person mashing jab/frame trap. Either case is a no-no.

Looking at the way the move is built makes me just see it as a confirmed combo ender, or a mid range footsie beater. I don’t play Laura though.

[NaokiB4U]

When you’re online you won’t see it 90% of the time, but you will hear the sound effect of the EX going off and your bar disappears. This happens to me often when people bait out an EX from me or they are straight up mashing buttons nonstop.

Yeah the reason for this is because you’re making up your own special rules in your head, “I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me…”.
Well sorry dude but that’s how the game works (and it isn’t at all strange). You can either whine about it or actually play the game.

Not really. Its strange in some sense. As I explained before, every single other character gets invincibility frames from frame 1 on their reversal EX. Laura gets her armor on 3. This doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t match up with the rest of the cast. Even Rashid and FANG get invincible frames. Even Zangief who has a slow startup on his lariat, has invincible frames earlier. On paper a jab should not beat an EX if we’re going by how the entire cast plays.

Where it does make sense (as I was convinced of previous) is in the meta of the game. It seems that in this game they are designing grapplers to take more punishment while dishing it out. The problem as I stated before is that this isn’t the case right now. Clearly need more time to develop, but grapplers suffer from a lack of reliable offensive options. Mika is a 50/50 so if she fucks up, you win.

V frames shows the armor starting on frame 3. So, that tells me to get jabbed out of it, you are either getting hit with meaty jab/grab trying to use it on your wake-up, or trying to use it close quarters on a person mashing jab/frame trap. Either case is a no-no.

Looking at the way the move is built makes me just see it as a confirmed combo ender, or a mid range footsie beater. I don’t play Laura though.

To me, I’ve been using it as a reactionary anti-projectile tool. Ryus and Nashs tend to throw a projectile the moment they get a knockdown on you. If you see it immediately EX and you will blow through it and hit them.

[DRCsyntax]

Yeah the reason for this is because you’re making up your own special rules in your head, “I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me…”.
Well sorry dude but that’s how the game works (and it isn’t at all strange). You can either whine about it or actually play the game.

No. Please reread what I said as slowly as you need to. Nowhere did I say “This isn’t working how I want it to so change it.” I did however respond to Neo’s talk about armor and mentioned that I hadn’t thought of that; as they have now posted that she needs 3 frames to get the armor; the mistake won’t be happening again. Thanks for playing though?

@NaokiB4U I see what you mean about blow for blow on grapplers; kinda hard to find an even footing I guess since this game seems to have quite a few command grabbing characters in comparison to the previous SF games; can’t just let us blow them out of the water with frame trip mix ups.

@NeoBlood Thanks for bringing up the frames on the armor! I’ll have to consider that more in the future when I’m having issues like this.

[Alkipot]

Or just learn to play around that weakness.
Every character with a command throw in the game has several ways to approach and usually some strong pokes.

If you don’t like having to play that way, don’t play those characters.
Or whine and be shitty.

+1

Also keep in mind certain characters have more V-reversal stocks than others, Geif included. Although I will say that V Reversals in general seem weakest in the situations where you’d like to use them the most. And in Geif’s position, some times he REALLY relies on his V-trigger to get something going in a match-up.

Yeah I just find it funny it’s like all these people say they want to play, they want to play.

But when it comes down to it they’d rather bitch and moan than do what the good players do: learn how to play the game.
The idea that the game can somehow magically be something else that pleases them more is juvenile.

It’s the idea that patches are coming. It keeps their dreams alive. “It’ll change”.
Instead of how it is if you play an older game “This is the game, play it”.

The whole point of this game was to get rid of people’s bad habits from 4 and have your decisions carry more weight.

This right here; this is a joke right? Street Fighter has been on a downward spiral of “let’s empower scrubs” since 4 first came out.

I’ll honestly say I hadn’t considered the possibility of the armor not being on the start up frame; so there’s that; but I’ve already adjusting since posting that to not fall into it anymore.

As with any possibility (online being the issue) I’ve “burned bar” without the character so much as moving. It just doesn’t…seem…like it’s supposed to happen? I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me; maybe it is, maybe it’s online, maybe I’m just not seeing where the disconnect it.

Yeah the reason for this is because you’re making up your own special rules in your head, “I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me…”.
Well sorry dude but that’s how the game works (and it isn’t at all strange). You can either whine about it or actually play the game.

Lol @ top players don’t bitch and moan. Do you watch any streams?! GTFO with that shit bro. You can complain and think something is dumb while still learning how to deal with it.

And holy shit at anyone thinking Laura is some godtier cuz he got gold in two days. Oh god, I’m fucking dying!

[Alkipot]

Dude I just beat a gold Chun as Laura, her worst matchup, I’m gonna kill at EVO!

[FengShuiEnergy]

Dude I just beat a gold Chun as Laura, her worst matchup, I’m gonna kill at EVO!

The day a canadian wins anything at fighters (or anything in that matter) is the day I become a girl.

[Muttonman]

The problem is not losing the bar. I agree with you all, you lose the bar you lose it. The problem is in how the functionality of EX moves work for some characters. Why are we giving characters with amazing tools MORE amazing tools and not giving them to those with less tools? Instead of giving Laura and Mika actual reversals they gave them fake armored moves which get stuffed 99% of the time. Basically they need to make their startup invincible OR armor begins on earlier frames like Ryu, Ken, Chun, Karin, Rashid, and Necali get invincible frames on early frames and can’t get stuffed.

Agreed. Gief running bear grab could be a somewhat OK reversal option but the armor begins on frame 3.

A basic design goal here was that Grapplers can get rushed down, hence no DP moves unless you’ve got CA on deck. Frame 3 armor is important because the game is all about 2f traps.

Correct, but there’s an inherent flaw in this design in a game like SFV. It is heavily based on offense, so why should other characters have godlike defense? Ryu has what, 3-4 anti-airs NOT including dp? Kind of ridiculous. In reality then every invincible frame should also be frame 3, which it isn’t currently. This would put ALL character’s reversal options equal. The ironic part is that the grapplers are not given DPs so they can be rushed down, but they can’t even rush down properly because every other character can mash an EX to stop their rush down.

I know I’m a minority in this but I truly think in the grand scheme of things to make the current game more balanced a simple equalizing of reversals would help it big time. I’m probably salty because I’m suffering as a Laura/Alex player right now and Juri isn’t out so I can’t really play a more “honest” game. Even then what would it harm to give Laura Mika and Gief 1 hit of armor? If they use it during a crossup they will still whiff. Even Hakan in SFIV had a somewhat reliable EX slide that could get him out of trouble.

Because the game is based around meaty pressure; their armor moves are for blowing through pokes, counterpokes, and delayed frametraps. The basic idea is that the scarier you are when you’re in, the less scary you are when they’re in on you. Ryu can’t do much more than meaty/grab after a combo if that. Laura can air reset you into a left/right/high/low/strike/throw. When Ryu gets in he gets a strike/throw and then a strike/dash throw, maybe toss in an overhead at some point. When R.Mika gets in she gets a strike/throw, strike/throw, strike/throw with a possible VT for a left/right which puts her back in.

Thus grapplers have to take the pressure when they get knocked on their backs, but they don’t have to guess as often as other characters do against them. I don’t think it’s perfectly balanced; Laura is one of my tougher matchups but I don’t think she’s that good nor is Zangief, but the design goals are there.

Interesting. I see your point. In this regard then Mika Gief and Laura’s reversals should stay as is. Although to be fair Ryu, Ken, Cammy, Chun etc are all scary as fuck close up…so to that point the logic kind of falls flat. If anything going by that logic then all those with invincible reliable reversals should have their invincibility frames adjusted to compensate. That way those characters (who are all considered top tier btw) will actually be afraid of grapplers. The difference I see with Mika is that her meaties and normals are MUCH better than Gief or Laura at the moment…so maybe its a normals adjustment we need instead?

Laura cannot air reset any of those characters if they have a bar on deck. As soon as she resets mid-air start mashing reversal and you knock her out of it. You’re essentially baiting a DP rather than doing an actual mixup…

Or just learn to play around that weakness.
Every character with a command throw in the game has several ways to approach and usually some strong pokes.

If you don’t like having to play that way, don’t play those characters.
Or whine and be shitty.

You…haven’t played Laura have you? Also Claw has a command throw with godlike pokes…so how is that balanced? Lol.

Ryu, Cammy, Chun, and Ken are waaaaaaay less scary after a blocked jump in than Laura or R.Mika. And Laura gets the best mixup in the game for 1 bar with throw knockdowns otherwise.

[NaokiB4U]

The problem is not losing the bar. I agree with you all, you lose the bar you lose it. The problem is in how the functionality of EX moves work for some characters. Why are we giving characters with amazing tools MORE amazing tools and not giving them to those with less tools? Instead of giving Laura and Mika actual reversals they gave them fake armored moves which get stuffed 99% of the time. Basically they need to make their startup invincible OR armor begins on earlier frames like Ryu, Ken, Chun, Karin, Rashid, and Necali get invincible frames on early frames and can’t get stuffed.

Agreed. Gief running bear grab could be a somewhat OK reversal option but the armor begins on frame 3.

A basic design goal here was that Grapplers can get rushed down, hence no DP moves unless you’ve got CA on deck. Frame 3 armor is important because the game is all about 2f traps.

Correct, but there’s an inherent flaw in this design in a game like SFV. It is heavily based on offense, so why should other characters have godlike defense? Ryu has what, 3-4 anti-airs NOT including dp? Kind of ridiculous. In reality then every invincible frame should also be frame 3, which it isn’t currently. This would put ALL character’s reversal options equal. The ironic part is that the grapplers are not given DPs so they can be rushed down, but they can’t even rush down properly because every other character can mash an EX to stop their rush down.

I know I’m a minority in this but I truly think in the grand scheme of things to make the current game more balanced a simple equalizing of reversals would help it big time. I’m probably salty because I’m suffering as a Laura/Alex player right now and Juri isn’t out so I can’t really play a more “honest” game. Even then what would it harm to give Laura Mika and Gief 1 hit of armor? If they use it during a crossup they will still whiff. Even Hakan in SFIV had a somewhat reliable EX slide that could get him out of trouble.

Because the game is based around meaty pressure; their armor moves are for blowing through pokes, counterpokes, and delayed frametraps. The basic idea is that the scarier you are when you’re in, the less scary you are when they’re in on you. Ryu can’t do much more than meaty/grab after a combo if that. Laura can air reset you into a left/right/high/low/strike/throw. When Ryu gets in he gets a strike/throw and then a strike/dash throw, maybe toss in an overhead at some point. When R.Mika gets in she gets a strike/throw, strike/throw, strike/throw with a possible VT for a left/right which puts her back in.

Thus grapplers have to take the pressure when they get knocked on their backs, but they don’t have to guess as often as other characters do against them. I don’t think it’s perfectly balanced; Laura is one of my tougher matchups but I don’t think she’s that good nor is Zangief, but the design goals are there.

Interesting. I see your point. In this regard then Mika Gief and Laura’s reversals should stay as is. Although to be fair Ryu, Ken, Cammy, Chun etc are all scary as fuck close up…so to that point the logic kind of falls flat. If anything going by that logic then all those with invincible reliable reversals should have their invincibility frames adjusted to compensate. That way those characters (who are all considered top tier btw) will actually be afraid of grapplers. The difference I see with Mika is that her meaties and normals are MUCH better than Gief or Laura at the moment…so maybe its a normals adjustment we need instead?

Laura cannot air reset any of those characters if they have a bar on deck. As soon as she resets mid-air start mashing reversal and you knock her out of it. You’re essentially baiting a DP rather than doing an actual mixup…

Or just learn to play around that weakness.
Every character with a command throw in the game has several ways to approach and usually some strong pokes.

If you don’t like having to play that way, don’t play those characters.
Or whine and be shitty.

You…haven’t played Laura have you? Also Claw has a command throw with godlike pokes…so how is that balanced? Lol.

Ryu, Cammy, Chun, and Ken are waaaaaaay less scary after a blocked jump in than Laura or R.Mika. And Laura gets the best mixup in the game for 1 bar with throw knockdowns otherwise.

May have to agree to disagree here. Those characters listed have faster harder hitting normals that are safer on block. Cammy in particular is a nightmare due to her fast walkspeed and ability to tick throw much easier than the other 3 mentioned. Her c.strong is so damn fast it beats out Laura’s good buttons (st.MP, cHP, etc). Still scary to me as a Laura player. Very true she gets one of the better mixups for 1 bar but again, all 4 of those characters can DP with 1 bar and stop it. It might just be me as a player but I lose more often to those 4 than to any other character in this game.

[MrPFloyd]

More defensive options. Ex reversals shouldn’t lose to throws and jabs.
I disagree with most of the opinions here though, I do think the game is ass. Better than vanilla 4 but this game has a long way to go before it’s a decent fighter.
Inb4 learn to play the game, scrub, etc.
People forget that sf2 in example was broken as hell and it took them many updates before they got it right.

[truendymion]

Fix the ragequitting. Just give the winner/loser the points the would have gained/lossed if they hadn’t ragequit. I don’t know how they fucked this up between SF4 and SF5…

[Tebbo]

Or just learn to play around that weakness.
Every character with a command throw in the game has several ways to approach and usually some strong pokes.

If you don’t like having to play that way, don’t play those characters.
Or whine and be shitty.

+1

Also keep in mind certain characters have more V-reversal stocks than others, Geif included. Although I will say that V Reversals in general seem weakest in the situations where you’d like to use them the most. And in Geif’s position, some times he REALLY relies on his V-trigger to get something going in a match-up.

Yeah I just find it funny it’s like all these people say they want to play, they want to play.

But when it comes down to it they’d rather bitch and moan than do what the good players do: learn how to play the game.
The idea that the game can somehow magically be something else that pleases them more is juvenile.

It’s the idea that patches are coming. It keeps their dreams alive. “It’ll change”.
Instead of how it is if you play an older game “This is the game, play it”.

The whole point of this game was to get rid of people’s bad habits from 4 and have your decisions carry more weight.

This right here; this is a joke right? Street Fighter has been on a downward spiral of “let’s empower scrubs” since 4 first came out.

I’ll honestly say I hadn’t considered the possibility of the armor not being on the start up frame; so there’s that; but I’ve already adjusting since posting that to not fall into it anymore.

As with any possibility (online being the issue) I’ve “burned bar” without the character so much as moving. It just doesn’t…seem…like it’s supposed to happen? I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me; maybe it is, maybe it’s online, maybe I’m just not seeing where the disconnect it.

Yeah the reason for this is because you’re making up your own special rules in your head, “I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me…”.
Well sorry dude but that’s how the game works (and it isn’t at all strange). You can either whine about it or actually play the game.

Lol @ top players don’t bitch and moan. Do you watch any streams?! GTFO with that shit bro. You can complain and think something is dumb while still learning how to deal with it.

And holy shit at anyone thinking Laura is some godtier cuz he got gold in two days. Oh god, I’m fucking dying!

Ok.

I can’t empathize with players wanting their meter refunded when they fail to use a move correctly,
but yes everyone bitches. bitching and whining don’t mean the same thing to me but they might to some.
So there’s really nowhere to go with this. Fair enough, you guys have fun bitching, whining, etc.

[NeoBlood]

Yeah the reason for this is because you’re making up your own special rules in your head, “I don’t know man, a normal jab out prioritizing an EX elbow from Laura doesn’t seem kosher to me…”.
Well sorry dude but that’s how the game works (and it isn’t at all strange). You can either whine about it or actually play the game.

No. Please reread what I said as slowly as you need to. Nowhere did I say “This isn’t working how I want it to so change it.” I did however respond to Neo’s talk about armor and mentioned that I hadn’t thought of that; as they have now posted that she needs 3 frames to get the armor; the mistake won’t be happening again. Thanks for playing though?

@NaokiB4U I see what you mean about blow for blow on grapplers; kinda hard to find an even footing I guess since this game seems to have quite a few command grabbing characters in comparison to the previous SF games; can’t just let us blow them out of the water with frame trip mix ups.

@NeoBlood Thanks for bringing up the frames on the armor! I’ll have to consider that more in the future when I’m having issues like this.

NP and to even further emphasize my point for the benefit of other people in this thread, looking at R. Mikas data shows her EX Shooting Peach only gains upperbody armor on frame 3 as well. Her EX Wingless Airplaine is only invincible frames 5-15. I know for a fact none of Dhalsim’s EX moves are completely invincible from startup, even his teleport can be grabbed in the early frames. So again, its just a matter of what they decided to give certain characters. If every character had an invincible or armored move from frame 1, odds are those would also be very punishable and have automatic counter hit during recovery. If you’re jealous that some characters have it and yours doesn’t, either play those characters or start blocking and punishing those moves hard so you get to see what a gamble they are.

And if you really want something invincible on your character’s wakeup, save up for a Critical Art. Most (maybe all, I havent looked) have invincibility on startup.

Whether some people care to admit it or not this game is SUUUUPER dependent on frame data, which really ruins Capcom’s goal of appealing to casuals IMO, so do all yourselves a favor and download VFrames.