Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

[Vegeas]

•Bursts
•Slashback
•Faultless Defense
•FRC’s
•Double Jump
•Triple Jump
•Wall Splat’s
•Ride the Lightning’s
•Sol Badguy

[Oilforthewin]

Please no Lucky Chloe like character design in SF

Stronger AAs please and no rolls.

[SolidSonicTH]

Why all this talk about parries, which IMO, have a very small chance of ever returning?

Doesn’t anyone find the concept of something like the Alpha counters, which used meter, more interesting?

As long as they don’t retain the same functionality as Alpha 3 (Alpha Counter means you get a shorter guard break meter). That’s just backwards.

[Zio_Name]

Umm… While reading the Famitsu interview with Ono, something caught my attetion:

Lastly, could you tell us more about the concept or unique selling points for Street Fighter V?

Ono: Right. About that… earlier today we said that at next week’s Capcom Cup, we’ll be doing a live demonstration with a playable build. I think that once the users see the demonstration, even if they’re a gamer who’s played a lot of Street Fighter in the past but not so much recently, that they’d love to come back and start playing SFV.

What could that mean? It could mean potentially everything.

[Spaceninja007]

Short jump be cool.

[Gamogo]

Some drivel from me. Stuff I’d like to see considered for SFV. Many of these I was hoping to see in SFIV, but most (if not all) never really happened:

Gameplay:

• Tightened reversal window (i.e. I am really tired of IV’s mashing friendly input system and really don’t to see such tripe carried over into SFV)
• Post-KO hits
• Audible tone and larger visual cue for counterhits
• Damage reduction on any ‘comeback’ mechanic they may opt for
• Guard crush
• Reduction of specials and character abilities that flip-off/nullify too many of SF’s key fundamentals (footsies, spacing, projectiles)
• Functional taunting (damage bump, meter gains, etc)
• Solid impact feedback. Some of IV’s impact feedback is very weak, especially compared with earlier SF2-era games. I felt vanilla SFIV in the arcade had a meatier feel to everything (the better sound certainly assisted here) though subsequent versions of the game have lacked a solid feel to the way impact is handled for many attacks. Meaner impact effects combined with a slightly longer hitstop effect would assist massively here.
• Cross-up consistency. IV had a wealth of issues with whacky hitboxes and strange and inconsistent cross-ups (many of which lead into unblockables). I feel some clearer distinction needs to be made for attacks that can and cannot cross-up. Corner cross-ups? Remove?

System:

• Rematch option for online lobbies comprised of two players
• Ability to use the game as a spectator client for events ala DOTA and so on. This way you’d have a perfect ‘stream’ for events using the game itself which would give a much better viewing experience
• Instantly skippable intros/menu transitions/VS screen scrolling/etc
• Sane button config, accessible at any time, on any screen, via the ‘pause’ method described below
• In-game ‘pausing’ only possible if the start button is held down for >4 seconds. I still see ‘pauses’ happen from time to time and it strikes me as something easily fixed
• I’m curious to know if some form of spectator mode mini-game is feasible to run in parallel to the game being played. Something to occupy players whilst they wait their turn (especially in larger lobby queues). Maybe some related mini-game that flexes an in-game skill or technique to pass the time if the match being played isn’t particularly interesting to watch.
• Opponent AI that actually performs some slightly more advanced stuff. Footsies, random pokes, position shuffling, proper punishes. Even some training mode options that allow you to define some simple but random poking, jumping, position movement, etc to practise against
• ‘World Tour’ or similar modes that could make single player something interesting to tinker with. Vanilla SFIV for example had some unique single player challenges that were strangely ditched in subsequent releases, many of which were kinda fun
• Offline bracket generator. This would be extremely handy when running local tournaments broken up into smaller pools. I see a lot of potential for a system like this.
• Additionally, an online bracket generator would also be useful that issues a game invite once your game slot opens up with a match to be played if you are not actively spectating. Failing to join within a defined disqualification period would result in a loss. This I feel could make online play kinda fun. Player defined tournaments that participants can either spectate or dabble in other lobbies or even training mode until their scheduled match is called via a game invite.
• Ability to disable custom costumes and define opponent colour choices. Online opponents get to see their garish shit on their end, but on mine they default to the default costume and colour two for example.
• Hitbox, hurtbox and live frame data display in training mode
• Customisable single player/training mode AI playbooks. Permit a simple system that allows players to define simple attributes to character AI that re-weights their AI driven motivations just like you can modify the AI’s move weights in SFIV (albeit using OnoTool). For example, define an overly aggressive Honda style, a turtle Akuma, a ground-only Bison (all with far more variations), etc and with it set preferred combo and punish sequences and other definable tendencies. The idea here being to add some extra sauce to the training mode aspect were players to tinker around with a (more useful) AI opponent.

General:

• Leaner cast. SFIV is a bit ridiculous right now
• A little more vocal honesty from Capcom with respect to ongoing balance and bugfix discussion online. Their communication skills are absolutely horrendous
  - An API so external applications can be written to query player stats, game status and so on. I feel this would go along way towards giving some of us a toolset we can use to populate external websites with live and up to date player data. Give us a JSON driven method Capcom/Sony!
• It might require a ratings bump, but I really miss the subtle blood and vomit from the SF2 games. I’m not talking buckets of the stuff, just a splash here and there when a sufficiently massive hit is taken to the chops. If Ryu performs a crouching fierce on Ken, I expect to see a little bit of sauce fly.

[Spaceninja007]

It would be cool to see the K.O. going away, take that with you hit. Be able to move or do a move after K.O.

[Gamogo]

Kill autoblocking and bury it deep enough so no one can ever reuse it again. No more buffering shoryukens like crazy while on block. Links are already a pain and frame traps become foolish to perform.

Ding.

[Zio_Name]

- An API so external applications can be written to query player stats, game status and so on. I feel this would go along way towards giving some of us a toolset we can use to populate external websites with live and up to date player data. Give us a JSON driven method Capcom/Sony!

THIS. This like over 9,000 times.

I don’t care if it is a Pre-Made Capcom App at first. Just let me have something that shows real time ping DURING the match.

[Gamogo]

- An API so external applications can be written to query player stats, game status and so on. I feel this would go along way towards giving some of us a toolset we can use to populate external websites with live and up to date player data. Give us a JSON driven method Capcom/Sony!

THIS. This like over 9,000 times.

I don’t care if it is a Pre-Made Capcom App at first. Just let me have something that shows real time ping DURING the match.

Yeah, needs to be done. The fact that something doesn’t exist for SFIV is utterly shameful. Frankly, I would be extremely surprised if something didn’t emerge for SFV. Though it if didn’t, it would reaffirm one opinion I hold of Capcom, that’s for sure.

[Necrotrophic]

Id like negative edge to be optional or have the window tightened a bit.

[Gamogo]

Id like negative edge to be optional or have the window tightened a bit.

Making a key input mechanic optional (while feasible in an implementation sense) would only add another layer of config at locals which eats into bracket times, stream idling, etc. Perhaps you could have a toggle in a quickly accessible button config menu however to offset this.

Negative edge does strike me as a core part of the game system with targeted function around it. I doubt Capcom would allow it to be manipulated optionally.

[fischbs]

Pop-quiz.

If parrying WERE to return by some small chance, and the people disagreeing with it’s implementation were able to tweak it to better suit their vision of SF5, what changes would you make if it was inevitably going to be put into the game?

I think it’s a cool mechanic, but I can see where people are coming from in disagreeing with it.

There is no way to balance it when it’s just…intercept a high or low attack and completely turn the tables at the drop of a hat. That’s not Street Fighter. We already have something that beats multiple options, breaks momentum, turns the tables and is severely punishable on whiff, it’s called reversals!

Parries are fundamentally ridiculous as a mechanic.

[TheFreshPrince]

wow there is so much bad info in this thread!

3s does not promote random play. it promotes random play if you and your friends are awful at the game and don’t understand how it works. most parries do not come off “knowing what the guy would do because he’s predictable.” 3s isn’t a game where you do the most random thing. parry primarily exists as part of the footsie game. it’s another layer basically. in that sense it’s the same “random” as any other game. when you play footsies in SF4, do you walk into max distance low forward range and then low forward every time? do you walk to a certain space and then fireball every time? no, because it would get you punished if they could predict it right? 3s works the exact same way.

parry is not that strong the better you get at the game. in japan most people do not parry. it’s too risky. the better you get at the game the easier it is to punish guess parry and the less people will do it.

you guys are massively overestimating jump in parry. it’s not that good! there are so many anti air options. yeah it’s not cut and dry like SF2 where “you jump and I anti air.” it’s a little more complicated than that. but this idea you guys have in your head of “I hold up+ forward cuz I can just parry his anti airs” is not reality.

adding parry whiff animations or requiring meter for parry or making parry cost gray health, these are all solutions in search of a problem. parry is punishable in 3s, there’s just no obvious whiff animation. but you can see every parry attempt in how they move. you can make predictions on parry as part of footsies and punish the attempts.

I guess the short version of this post is you guys should understand how this game works before criticizing it and offering solutions to problems. I’m sure while you’re typing it, it all sounds sensible to you. but you are offering balance and game mechanics changes so you can solve problems that people who play the game well do not have. it’s like playing SF4 for 2 months and saying “I’m now qualified to offer mechanics changes.” of course you’re not, you’re horrible at the game! why should anyone listen to you?

I agree SF5 does not need parry. it’s because a game with parries in it already exists, that game is fun, and so now it would be cool for Capcom to do something different. people who love parry can keep playing 3s.

I played SF3 for about 5 years (only like 2 of those years were 3S), so yeah I may not have the most in-depth knowledge of the game, but I have played it and watched many high level videos of it. No where in my post did I say that people will always do the same things, but that if you are used to doing the same thing because it is your best tool (Ryu cr.MK xx Hado for example), then people will catch on and start parrying your shit if parry is available to them. Instead of just making parries garbage, why not just add a move that negates them but is highly risky? The only thing this does is add even MORE mindgames to mix, which is the main reason why people like parries in the first place right?

Obviously just jumping in will still get you killed in a high level 3S match, but that isn’t the point. The point most people are trying to get across is that jumping should always be an inherent risk, with no way to save yourself from punishment. I would argue that jumping in 3S is actually worse than it is in SF4, but that doesn’t mean I agree with being able to parry in the air, either. Jumping is already less risky than it used to be ever since the introduction of trip-guard, so I really wouldn’t like it if I had to guess between empty-jump, jumping attack, AND air parry. I think if you jump into a range where I can hit you, you should be hit, period.

but building a game around low forward -> fireball would be a bad move in 3s. like the tool just isn’t that good even without red parry. I feel like people should explore the way the game works and then come up with a gameplan. seems like a lot of people come up with a gameplan and then when they play vs someone else and lose they say “wow this game sucks” instead of “I made poor decisions in this game engine.”

it’s fine to think anti airs should be guaranteed. I’m just saying I think 3s anti air game is fine how it is - not like a glaring deficiency or whatever. same as like KOF vs SF2 or 4. KOF jumping is way better. zoning and ground game tools exist in those games but you can always jump and that’s part of the neutral game. it’s not bad or good, just different.

Yeah I know that low forward hado sucks in 3S for more reasons than parry, I just didn’t add it because I knew you know that as well. What I meant to say, was that in almost every game other than 3S, Ryu’s low forward hado was his go to blockstring. If they kept it that way for SF5 while also adding parry, I think it would end up being widely useless without something that can also be canceled into to negate the parry if the Ryu player read that you were going for the parry attempt. I understand what you are saying about parry, and all I’m trying to say is that I also understand exactly where you are coming from since I have played and watched 3S enough to know that most of what these other players are claiming is not true. I just personally do not like how parry was implemented in 3S, which is why I was offering suggestions on how to change it without making it bad, while making it less annoying for the people who don’t like the mechanic.

This is all on the basis that parries are a possible thing based on a few animations in the gameplay shown. I know that there is some sort of defensive mechanic like parry/alpha counter/something new in order to counteract the guard crush system, otherwise guard rush would be straight broken. If parry is not in, then I will be happy. If parry is in, then I will be happy as long as there are some tweaks to make it function differently than it does in 3S.

Now some actual improvements to mechanics that I would like to see based on already shown ones?

[list]
[] Make supers somehow useful again. This can be done with shorter bars, multiple stocks like SF3, or giving them unique properties like unscaled damage.
[] All characters’ guard bars are the same length. Each move now has a value that determines how much “GC” damage it does. I like this idea better than characters getting more/less bar depending on their playstyle, as it makes things easier to change on an individual basis. Also makes it far easier to nerf/buff certain moves without having to edit a characters guard meter, which can possibly make or break the character.
[] Remove strike invincibility on backdashes; make it so that they are now only airborne from frame 1-whenever and throw invincible.
[] Walkspeed increased by about 40% from what it was in SF4. Shitty walkspeed is the most complained about thing in SF4 other than Ultras/Focus Attack.
[] MOST IMPORTANT: Crouch tech NEEDS to force stand throw attempt with whiff animation. I’m fine with certain OSes but this shit needs to go ASAP
[] Increase the blockstun of medium/heavy normals to match hitstun; give all normals more pushback so that it isn’t too easy to crush an opponents guard.
[] 2F Reversal window with “lockout” system if any move with a reversal flag is performed more than 2 times outside of the 2F window. 2 time limit instead of 1 so that negative edge and piano reversals don’t always trigger the “lockout”.
[] “Old school” level damage, or at least comparable to Vanilla SF4.
[] Higher stun output across the cast. In SF4 outside of E.Ryu/Dudley/Makoto/Yun/Cammy, stuns pretty much never fucking happen. I like watching vids from earlier games where getting stunned is always a possibility, so the players are usually much smarter and more cautious with their approach. This along with higher damage also has the added benefit of faster rounds, and the opponent being less likely to throw out some random bullshit.
[] Lower the amount of characters who can change their air trajectory and make anti airs function properly
[] 3S style taunt buffs
[] Post-KO hits because they are fun
[/list]

If these changes were implemented, I think I would like SF5 enough to consider it the best SF style game since CvS2.

[FengShuiEnergy]

Implementing something similar to what KI does if you miss a CB’er. I see. I think they should keep the BD Full body I-frames intact. I think they should forgo stun gauges now. I think guard break is more then enough.

[Rioting_Soul]

snip

I admit I’m an impatient player. When I figure that its difficult to get in directly, I prefer to try and jump in. Not only that, but you had high jumps in 3rd Strike, allowing you attack from the air from 2 different heights/distances. All this helps in making jumping part of your movement and offense, and parrying ensures that there are more situations where jumping is plausible, instead of being a very stupid thing to do.

My point: Jumping should be a bigger part of the potential movement and offensive options you have against most characters than it is in SF4 or SF2. A static air game and too much focus on the ground is annoying. There’s an entire spectrum of attack and movement that are useless without parry, outside of setups and specific matchups.

Jumping during the neutral game is a Hail Mary pass. You use it once you have nothing better to do(you got outplayed). It has a very low chance of success but if it does succeed it’s BIG. When I play Madden the vast majority of my plays are long passes, even on 4th down. I’m not good at football. Imagine if wide receivers were placed 10 yards offside before the ball was snapped. Hail Marys would become a bigger part of the potential plays on offense. I’d be excited to see a game of that. People more into football might be pissed though.

snip

Ok? But can we have a non-SF3 SF that has parry in it but works differently from SF3 parry? I mean, it’s possible to not love 3s parry but see some merits in it. Is it ok for us to want an augmentation of the mechanic in a non-SF3 game without implying 3s is shit?

[IglooBob]

snip

I admit I’m an impatient player. When I figure that its difficult to get in directly, I prefer to try and jump in. Not only that, but you had high jumps in 3rd Strike, allowing you attack from the air from 2 different heights/distances. All this helps in making jumping part of your movement and offense, and parrying ensures that there are more situations where jumping is plausible, instead of being a very stupid thing to do.

My point: Jumping should be a bigger part of the potential movement and offensive options you have against most characters than it is in SF4 or SF2. A static air game and too much focus on the ground is annoying. There’s an entire spectrum of attack and movement that are useless without parry, outside of setups and specific matchups.

Jumping during the neutral game is a Hail Mary pass. You use it once you have nothing better to do(you got outplayed). It has a very low chance of success but if it does succeed it’s BIG. When I play Madden the vast majority of my plays are long passes, even on 4th down. I’m not good at football. Imagine if wide receivers were placed 10 yards offside before the ball was snapped. Hail Marys would become a bigger part of the potential plays on offense. I’d be excited to see a game of that. People more into football might be pissed though.

snip

Ok? But can we have a non-SF3 SF that has parry in it but works differently from SF3 parry? I mean, it’s possible to not love 3s parry but see some merits in it. Is it ok for us to want an augmentation of the mechanic in a non-SF3 game without implying 3s is shit?

yup. my response was to people who were not doing that.

[fischbs]

Shoutouts to that post KO body beatdown. That would be great to see return.

Please no super jumps or jump happy meta that reduces the inherent risk you take from jumps. You get a ridiculously damaging combo or at least block string pressure off of a jump in, there should be a high risk associated with such high reward.

[Rin-Nakaret]

What about just defend instead of parry ? I dislike the third strike parry system honestly.

If we need a parry system I’d like something closer to gg/bb or garou : mark of the wolves ; You just defend = you build more meter and/or you gain life (à la garou) + there’s less blockstun (it’s possible to punish more stuff) ; if you want to counter right after a just defend you’ll have to just defend + spend some meter to do a guard cancel (à la garou once again).
This way, the parry won’t be as good as it is in third strike, but it’s still a really useful feature that can change the game deeply.

I really like MOTW just defend system, it’s my fav.

[Demon_Dash]

Isms and/or custom combos.