The game didn’t sell because arcades died out in North America by the time of its release but parry would not have helped at all since it dramatically increased the skill ceiling of play in far too dramatic of a way. Parry completely removes damage and has almost no risk when performing since there is no whiff animation. People who enjoy parrying don’t seem to realize that Focus was just a rebalanced parry by adding actual risk to the technique; raw Focus is manageable and has options to deal with it while Parrying didn’t.
SF3 also had shit variety in viable play and designs as well; fireballs were useless making zoning far more difficult and command grab characters had normals too slow to be viable. Your only option to play SF3 was to play high speed rush down characters of which there were only 5 or 6 good characters out of 20. Parrying is a terrible mechanic that eliminates far too many design choices making Street Fighter resemble Dive Kick more than an actual Street Fighter game.
Wonder if capcom will take more notes from KI and implement more stuff form that. (No, KI combos wil not be present nor CB’ers and counter breaker’s nor lock outs). But other things like having 2 bars of meter like shadow, a “danger” zone in which some “ultra” come can be preformed etc etc etc.
3S uses a different kind of hit detection, separate from the previous two. It was basically reengineered, for better or ill. So it’s no surprise people were kind of stumbling through Third Strike after Second Impact.
Personally I kind of preferred it. Hits felt cleaner (which was part of the intent of the rethink).
So how will air parries eleviate that? You do realize this is a fighting game. If you are not picking top tier you are resigning your self to losing situations. This is not Halo, or CoD, football, basketball, soccer where the advantage is strictly within player skill/talent. This is a FG where you have to deal with character advantages as well as player advantages.
Have you also thought about the flip side of things, characters jumping willy nilly at Hugo?
I agree with you igloobob, but I still cast my vote for parry implementation. As I said before. At the least make it an option. Give us our own lobby. I’m confident Capcom will come up with something different. They always do.
Let me just make sure I’m following along right: the interest in adding parry to Street Fighter V is primarily motivated by the presence of Guard Crushing? Or is it just because you think it would be a good mechanic to have?
parry in 3S is a way to get around footsies. in 3S you have to constantly be random in your approach so you don’t get caught with parry/red parry/buffered parry garbage in the game.
funny how so many people over the years have said the exact same shit about 3S, that it is random as fuck and the answer from 3S players is always the same shit “you don’t understand the mechanic!” “you are just bad at the game!”
Keep telling yourself that everyone else is wrong and that 3S isn’t random. I’m sure at some point you’ll start to believe your own bullshit.
I played SF3 for about 5 years (only like 2 of those years were 3S), so yeah I may not have the most in-depth knowledge of the game, but I have played it and watched many high level videos of it. No where in my post did I say that people will always do the same things, but that if you are used to doing the same thing because it is your best tool (Ryu cr.MK xx Hado for example), then people will catch on and start parrying your shit if parry is available to them. Instead of just making parries garbage, why not just add a move that negates them but is highly risky? The only thing this does is add even MORE mindgames to mix, which is the main reason why people like parries in the first place right?
Obviously just jumping in will still get you killed in a high level 3S match, but that isn’t the point. The point most people are trying to get across is that jumping should always be an inherent risk, with no way to save yourself from punishment. I would argue that jumping in 3S is actually worse than it is in SF4, but that doesn’t mean I agree with being able to parry in the air, either. Jumping is already less risky than it used to be ever since the introduction of trip-guard, so I really wouldn’t like it if I had to guess between empty-jump, jumping attack, AND air parry. I think if you jump into a range where I can hit you, you should be hit, period.
Predictable outcome is the worst trait I can think of to a fighting game.
Jumping makes you predictable enough because you dedicate an angle of movement that you can’t change, that doesn’t mean you should be powerless.
Thats the sole reason I like 3rd Strike and hate playing SF2 & SF4 -> in too many situations your options are drastically limited and many situations makes you nearly powerless to do anything.
Some characters can change their angle of their jump, thereby baiting an AA or whatever. Not every situation you should be given all options. You want to jump Fine…just be prepared to deal with the consequences if you fail.
Absolutely. That is key to being good at any SF. Doesn’t change the fact that SF3 is considerably more random than any other SF.
I would describe non-random as knowing your character’s tools, picking a good one for the current situation in which you find yourself in and proceeding from there. In 3S this goes out the window because you could be parried, red parried or even fucking buffer parried and get took for 40-60% of your life. It turns the game into a major guessing game at all aspects of play.
If you want to do random garbage into insane oki then go back to 3S or go play another kusoge like marvel
I wouldn’t describe parries as random since they require making a read or taking a really big guess. BUT I do think they change footsies a bit too much. The mere availability of the parry can force a character to change a whole gameplan. If you’re Ryu and his whole gameplan is cr. mk xx hado, you’re more susceptible to the parry.
Look at USF4 and the focus attack. Counter-hit level 1 crumple is a deterrent to throwing out pokes with long active frames. Case in point, all the Akuma players who are now more hesitant to use sweep since it can no longer be cancelled into U1. Hell, Dudley is supposedly high tier in that game and people always say he has really bad pokes. Because all he needs is one lucky focus fishing attempt and he gets to do his safe-on-block overhead into all kinds of crazy shit.
Footsies and pokes need to be the focus of SF5. Capcom can add whatever other shit it wants, be it guard crush, “instinct” mode, or whatever else. But they should leave the core foundation simple. That’s why SF2 is still played, because it got the basics right and each archetype is strong as hell.
EDIT: If they include parries then make it more like CVS2.
You’re not given all options. When you jump in 3rd Strike, you’re predictable, but the outcome is decided basically never.
In SF4, you’re right, some characters can change the angle of their jump. Baiting is even more powerful because of punish opportunities. But still, what about all other jumps you can risk? A lot of jump ins have an outcome thats written in the sky.
I just much prefer the parry-fighting mind game in the air than what happens in SF4, which makes jumping plain and simply useless outside of setup or specific characters. Which sucks, because in a 2D fighting game like those, the only other option is to move forward. And an eternal game of pure footsies and guessing fireball jumps -> that is the worst thing in the world.
I admit I’m an impatient player. When I figure that its difficult to get in directly, I prefer to try and jump in. Not only that, but you had high jumps in 3rd Strike, allowing you attack from the air from 2 different heights/distances. All this helps in making jumping part of your movement and offense, and parrying ensures that there are more situations where jumping is plausible, instead of being a very stupid thing to do.
My point: Jumping should be a bigger part of the potential movement and offensive options you have against most characters than it is in SF4 or SF2. A static air game and too much focus on the ground is annoying. There’s an entire spectrum of attack and movement that are useless without parry, outside of setups and specific matchups.
You call it major guessing game, I just call it major mind games. You’re right. You can never throw a move that cannot be punished. That is the beauty of it. Every punch you can’t just be certain its safe. You need to be in your opponent’s mind in every way, at every move you make. You need to take every possibility into consideration.
If 3rd Strike was truly “random” then players would never have any consistency. Tiers and bad character balance did screw this up (a Yun getting a good guess gets a 50%+ damage combo from a small meter, yes that kind of stupid is insanely dumb) but otherwise… I just don’t see it the way you do.
but building a game around low forward -> fireball would be a bad move in 3s. like the tool just isn’t that good even without red parry. I feel like people should explore the way the game works and then come up with a gameplan. seems like a lot of people come up with a gameplan and then when they play vs someone else and lose they say “wow this game sucks” instead of “I made poor decisions in this game engine.”
it’s fine to think anti airs should be guaranteed. I’m just saying I think 3s anti air game is fine how it is - not like a glaring deficiency or whatever. same as like KOF vs SF2 or 4. KOF jumping is way better. zoning and ground game tools exist in those games but you can always jump and that’s part of the neutral game. it’s not bad or good, just different.
Well like I’ve said before, They could (which they seem to be) are taking stuff from SFxT and putting it into SF5. Which I believe is a good way to go. Jumps are faster not as floaty as they are in SF4, CH’s actually have meaning and AA’s are dangerous. I don’t want SF5 to turn into KI’s abymsal AA game…jumping in that game was basically freedom with little consequence.