Idk, I sort of like the no chip kill. It requires a little more tactical thinking on the attackers part, and in some ways allows chip to effect the flow of battle more since the chip damage is allowed to be a bit higher than it would if it could cause kill.
Nobody expects it to be added in right away. Ono himself says he’s willing to update the game to keep the game relevant. Like red focus, ultra II, etc were added after the fact.
That has been said before. I won’t argue with you on this as it will just make a big circle of posts. We’ll just see what the actual meta evolves or devolves into once the game is out.
I am curious though, how far back does your fighting game history go?
You are absolutely right that historically, multiple SAs have shown that eventually one will prevail over the ‘lesser’ SAs. You are also right that the ‘better’ SA more often than not become synonymous with a certain character and their overall game plan. However, that was an age where games very often did not receive updates of any kind or advanced SA tech wasn’t discovered until months or years later. By that time it was already intricately woven into the meta and players were left with no choice but to choose the best super.
No matter how ‘good’ or ‘honest’ SFV will be in the long run, we will still have bad match-ups and imbalance to some extent. Having the choice to select between multiple CAs (that have regular balance patches and are designed well) can only add to the diversity of the game and aid players in less than stellar match-ups. Having a CA that can be easily hit confirmed and do decent damage really only helps one singular goal. Having a super that provides a shift in momentum and situational match-up advantage(s) and can provide the player with a veritable cornucopia of powerful options ex. Imagine if Remy’s Blue Nocturne was actually a real counter super?
I’d also like to mention the disparity that no one seems to be talking about is that some characters with throw CAs have no methods of chip killing in SFV! I can see that being very problematic for characters that have issues with heavy zoning or excessive run away. It does not change the integrity of the game but it is a glaring comeback mechanic that often only works well in anime games because players are given a shit-ton of options to deal with that situation. Allowing the option to choose an alternative CA will strengthen the overall diversity and give the player more tools to be proficient with their character. I’d also like to see more defensive style CAs in SFV.
Yes, 3rd Strike has more variety in its Super Meter than SFV, and that’s an undisputed fact. You have the choice of 3 Super Arts. Regardless of how effective one Super Art is compared to another, they all still exist & are available to the player. Many ppl don’t play 3rd Strike because they want to dominate EVO or Final Round, they play because they want to have fun, win amongst their friends, and do cool sh*t. I don’t view fighting games in competitive-play tunnel vision; I gotta have fun, I like to discover new tech, bottom line. If Super II is slightly better than Super I, let the community find out & judge if its true, i don’t want Capcom to do it for me & remove it from the game; because who knows, i may just like how Super I looks & i like mashing for extra hits.
Your SFIV explanation, again, is speaking to a niche hardcore demographic. The average player isnt even thinking about all of that. The average player is thinking, “Oh my bar is full!, let me do the Super because its cool, damaging, and i don’t have my Ultra yet.” A extra leaned-out fighting game doesn’t automatically equate to a fun fighting game. And a fun fighting game doesn’t automatically equate to a fair fighting game. There has to be a balance, and I don’t think SFV is currently achieving that with flying colors.
I agree with you to a point. 3S definitely had a bit more variety. But the V-Trigger system itself isn’t exactly lacking in that department either. It is flexible and expands the characters tool kit generally, leaving room for ‘discovering new tech’ while being a lot easier to balance. Unlike putting the ‘variety’ on the super bar you don’t have to do a huge balance calculation of the trade offs of each compared to the ex meter, that your likely to get somewhat off or can’t see as many emergent properties from, and unlike making the defensive variety option a huge damage dealing ultra you don’t have to worry about big/easy comebacks that swing the match.
So I would argue that while it could use a little more spice and not all of them are that great at providing flexibility, the mechanics of it are much more solid and are therefore much easier to expand upon for said variety later on because it’s easier to balance.
From my experience with SFV, The game does one core thing that a lot of recent fighting games havnt done: It subtly, yet naturally coaxes the player into critical thinking and exploring the systems of the game. Visual cues that show the player what an unsafe move is, The CC mechanic showing the player the importance of counter-hits, fast stun with a dedicated gauge that shows the player the importance of blocking, just to name a few. These are things that players usually learn through months of playing most fighting games, now being directly taught to players through the game’s core mechanics.
No joke, I was playing with one of my casual friends in beta 4 (we’d set up fake rounds in training mode waiting for a match) and he went from complete scrub to shimmy throw mixups and whiff punishing me in a couple hours of play. It was unbelievable how quickly he was learning these concepts when before he would get red-in-the-face angry while playing SFIV and he’d say it felt hopeless.
USFIV is pretty obtuse when it comes to low-level learning curve. There is nothing in the game’s core mechanics that promote strategic play. It has massive reversal windows paired with an easy way to make that reversal safe, while at the same time having most rewards in neutral be a hard knockdown. It forces the new player to turtle up and shy away from learning the neutral game while being stuck either on the ground or in block stun for the majority of the match.
I don’t care how many super, ultra or character options there are in a game, the only way you are getting into USFIV and getting good at it without having experience with another fighting game is through strait grinding through some of the most unfun situations ever in a fighting game.
I can agree with that. Like I said in a previous post. SFV has no bad mechanics, but there’s plenty room for refinement and expansion; with the Super meter system in SFV in particular being on the shallow side compared to other fighting games.
If Capcom wants to find out why a demographic of ppl feel that SFV is boring, the super meter system is one key area of concern. V-Trigger is fine, V-Reversal is fine, Crush Counter is fine. Like a poster earlier said, multiple CA’s would also solve the problem of characters who only have a Throw CA; they can’t chipout a win like the rest of the cast. Give them a 2nd CA that chips to kill. With proper balance and care, it’s a win for everybody. If something is overpowered or underpowered, patch it; but make the game fun to play and fun to watch if we’re really going to push this “its eSports & its for casuals” sh*t.
Throw supers aren’t as much of a tradeoff now because you can generally combo into them. You lose the ability to use your super in a blockstring, but it’s functionally unblockable if they aren’t already blocking.
I just want multiple V-Triggers because it would be a fairly cheap way to get a different feel from the same character. An Evil Ryu VT would be a nod to people who want Evil Ryu (and Akuma to a lesser degree) without wasting a character slot.
I agree. SFV is definitely more accessible than USF4. I’m not even saying USF4 is a better fighting game than SFV. One thing I appreciate about SFV is that it removes the carelessness of SF4. You make a mistake in SFV, you’re going to pay for it. Almost everything you do must be intentional, and fishing heavily for your favorite combos & set ups can get you killed.
But at the thread title’s request, im expressing my ideas on how SFV can improve. SFV is lacking when it comes to its super meter compared to USF4 and 3rd Strike. It is a weak point in SFV that should be revisited.
Yes, but throw CAs (apart from being combo’d into) are entirely avoidable. To my knowledge characters with throw CAs cannot chip kill. Once people start learning the intricacies of the game, I can see this being a more of relevant issue. I can think of a few common scenarios in SFV that might already be of concern.
I totally get that. No qualms with me on that front. I was just responding to the idea that SFV was somehow doing a disservice to the average player by not offering enough bells and whistles compared to SFIV. IMO, the game has taken great strides in trying to show your average casual exactly why fighting games can be so great outside of roster size, unlockables, multiple endings, and flashy supers.