counterhit on backdash… backdashes were too strong in 4 but no one complained about them in other games and it’s fun to use them for positioning. seriously removing invincibility was fine. i think they went too far here
crush counters are great but i think they haven’t gone far enough with them in 5. most characters can’t really frame trap with them in a traditional sense. i think they missed an opportunity by not making them scarier/more common
also, i think they should consider adding a character that will scratch the itch for players who want a more technical/academic challenge. an evil ryu, a viper, a sakura even, a character that requires a lot of time investment and practice to get the most from. I don’t mind them toning down the execution requirement as a general rule but I don’t think it would have killed them to throw people into that stuff a bone
There should be crush counters for jump attacks that cause OTG, wall bounce or hard knock downs. Maybe applicable to air to airs only. i.e. Birdies/Mikas jump hp would cause OTG floor bounce or hard knockdown.
SFV changed absolutely nothing in regards to super meter management. It has regressed for no real benefit besides making the game more elementary for new players.
Yes we have EX moves, we’ve had those since the 90’s with 2nd Impact. At least in 2nd Impact, we could choose 1 out of 3 Super Arts and it impacted your super meter management because of different stock sizes; so there were a variety of decisions to be made there.
In SFV, it’s straight forward ONE super & EXs, so the meter system regressed to a weird point between SSF2T and 2nd Impact. I think gamers should expect more now. This isn’t '09, pre-SF4, when the scene needed to be resurrected & ppl needed training wheels to get back in the groove. This is '16, the scene is back, now give the ppl something to actually chew on.
It doesnt even have to be multiple CAs. How about Super EX moves that use 2 stocks or something, or universal tools that tie the V-Meter & the Super meter together (ex: Ryu’s Super Denjin-Hadoken). Anything that pushes Street Fighter forwards, not backwards.
The problem with pushing SF forwards is now balance is such a huge issue with all the eSports going on. They may already feel that V Trigger is like your extra super and may not feel it’s necessary. They would have to entirely rework the super system IMO to allow for more than 1 super and it would most likely end up like 3S or SFIV where a certain super or ultra is widely used over the other for a sizeable part of the cast competitively.
I think the problem is they already did too good of a job with the meter system. You have super and EX bar which is easier to build super for than before. Then you have the V Gauge system which gives your character a unique attack, a unique power up/neutral tool and a reversal with more ways to manage and build for than ultras. I think they struck an almost perfect balance with this where it would make it tough to change it up much.
Because multiple SAs in III, as with any sub-option system in any fighting game ever, have only really offered the illusion of choice. Chun-Li only really has one Super Art which is SA2. Urien is synonymous with Aegis.
I’d rather have characters just designed and build around one really powerful options rather than give them a glut of options, some of which turn out not to be “real options” because they end up being pointless as the meta develops.
Like I said in my previous post, it doesn’t even have to be like Super Arts where you choose one out of 3 supers before a match. Why not have multiple supers available at once, why not give us 2-stock EXs, why not tie the V-Meter in with the Super meter as a new mechanic. There are many possibilities here besides what we have today with SFV’s super meter.
Yes, balancing new ideas is dangerous, but it’s a risk that should be taken to promote innovation & discovery in the player community. The SFV super meter as of now is proven functional, yet too safe and very old.
I dunno. The way you describe the game is as if there is no V Gauge. Like we just have a super meter and that’s it.
The whole point of having both super meter and V Gauge meter is so that you have a lot of meter based options without needing selectable options. Super and EX is there when you need it, but I think it’ll be very interesting to see which Ryu player uses V Skill to build their meter more or crush counters to build their meter more. Which Karin players will burn their EX meter to get out of trouble and which ones will save it and burn their V Gauge instead to V Reverse out. That gives a lot of things to play with on its own.
This will be enough on its own and if they want to add extra stuff in later seasons they can always do that. For now I think the combination of super and V Gauge is new and different for SF. V Gauge gives you a comeback tool that you don’t have to comeback in order to use. You can also get bar for making correct decisions with V Skills and Crush Counters so you can start winning more first.
I kind of wish the V Gauge was more complicated. Something like splitting up V Triggers and V Trigger cancels; you can get either roman cancel or go into V Trigger with the same rules as now, although it would need tinkering so that one isn’t the dominant option.
SFV is indeed more than just the Super meter. USF4 & 3rd Strike are also more than just a Super meter. Yet both USF4 and 3rd Strike have more variety & functionality with their Super meter system than SFV.
Like I said, SFV super meter system is a 15+ year throwback. I’m sure Capcom may spice things up with future seasons (Super SFV, etc etc), but as of today it’s archaic.
@itsOneO Archaic, but extremely effective at its job. Tying super to EX means you’re forced to make a style choice and in a sense it balances out the massive damage it can dish out unlike the Ultra meter problem that led to a lot of swing in matches. I’m sort of glad they got rid of the instant comeback button while still giving you something to help you work on getting there.
I sort of get where you’re coming from. The lack of option choice in what your super can be does feel a bit limiting when you came out of IV or 3rd strike, but that is mostly because they just tied the customization in style to the defensive resource build instead in the form of V Trigger and therefore ‘spices things up’ a little more subtly. V Trigger is basically a mix between custom combos and an ex skill it feels like, and definitely lets you extend your characters tool set a lot more than if you were just given a few ultra options and a super.
Honestly this feels like a much better refinement of what they were going for before with the ‘defensive resource’ thing in IV while still making it easy to balance and expand upon later. It certainly feels a bit more like you can adapt V trigger use to whatever match up you have without needing to change and guess ultra’s like in IV and 3rd strike.
I don’t get where you can say that 3rd Strike had more variety and functionality with it’s meter when, aside from the fact that 3S has no secondary meter, majority of the characters in that game only really had 1 Super Art. As I mentioned, it’s only an illusion of choice, because the so called “choices” aren’t really choices, not when there’s a clear favorite. Characters with 2 or more viable Super Arts are pretty rare. For the most part, you’re going to have character/super art combinations that are the de facto only versions of those characters to use (e.g. SA2 Chun, SA3 Yun, SA3 Ken, etc.)
As for SFIV, for the most part, the way meter management worked meant that supers were mostly useless. One of the only characters who got alot of mileage for her super is, ironically enough, someone who’s meter management is similar to SFV - Rose. This is because that they’ve split her big meter options are between one focused on damage, and one focused more on utility - a lessons from which they’ve applied to SFV (aside from the fact that big damage doesn’t primarily come from the comeback meter anymore).
this is not accurate, and pretty sure I’ve debunked it before on this board. here is a list of characters who 100% have more than one viable super that is often used in competitive play.
Makoto
Dudley
Yang
Ryu
Oro
Elena
Necro
Hugo
Q
Remy
that’s half the cast. If you want to pair it down to only the stronger characters, it’s still 5/10 characters who have more than one super.
It’s also really simple to imagine a world in which the other characters could have more than one viable super. Chun Yun and Ken only have one real super each because those supers are clearly better than the rest. so what if those supers weren’t so strong, or other supers were buffed instead, or other supers had more utility? Tada, now those characters have more than one viable super.
The difference between 3 supers in 3S and 3 supers in SFV is that Capcom can actually see a super is weaker and buff it. A bad super does not STAY bad nowadays.
I’d like them to add some stuff that use 2 bars of meter. Don’t know what it could be, probably the same thing for every character and i’d like it to be something offensive. Don’t exactly know what tho.
I still feel that having a sub-option system still leads to a situation where some of the options are “false choices” in that yoy obviously wouldn’t use them.
Multiple other games have shown this beyond just 3S.
The problem with this is that you risk 2 bar options beinf stronger than supers. This was a problem in IV and has also raised its head in other games with similar options (IIRC it was mentioned that one of the reasons that the RC system was changed and Force Breaks were removed in GGXrd was because 25% meter options were better than 50% options in XX).
Having false options is just bad design. Under your idea we might as well get rid of all characters but the best one as to avoid false choices. Force Breaks were just poorly designed relative to Overdrives in GG, same with FRCs compared to regular RCs. But you know, a lot of what AC introduced wasn’t very good and done for the sake of having more options which is why Xrd rolled it back. Now instead there still is the problem of RRCs not being 2x as strong as YRCs for 2x the meter but it’s still balanced far better. Overdrives end up being primarily utility tools rather than being in combo outside of beating bursts so they have a place compared to RRCs.
I find it weird how people suggest these big changes shortly before release.
Small stuff I understand like interface improvements, stuff like having a choice between shortcuts and no shortcuts, online features like spectator modes, rule specific things like the double K.O. rule and other stuff that might be oversights on Capcom’s part or would make the game better without changing it too much, but asking for multiple super bars or multiple supers at this point is just unrealistic to be found in the game a couple of days before release and should rather be discussed in a future update to the base game.