I’d like to point out that the buffer for links also helps make the game more playable online. Which brings me to something that Tekken’s Harada-san said - you don’t just stick good netcode onto a game, you also have to make sure that the game’s system works online. 3rd Strike should serve as testament to that, even with GGPO, the game just isn’t the same online as it is offline.
I’m not damning the game either. I’ve already bought it. Sure they will get most of the SF4 players port across, but this also 7 years after that game. That’s more than enough time to gather a whole new audience of fresh blood ( just like SF4 did).
The simple call isn’t based on some guess, it’s based on my playing experience ( both on and offline) along with numerous experienced posters on the site. If you don’t think people are legitimate concerned about things right now you’re flying blind.
There’s a long way to go, I’m optimistic, but I’m slightly concerned too. Nobody wants the game to fail, that’s one of the things that gets my goat when people discuss possible changes. Nobody is trying to piss away their $100 because it’s “not like SF4”. We just want it to be fun and lasting.
It seems like an unnecessary bandaid over the real issue of mashable reversals, and it’s not even implemented properly.
Why doesn’t it just apply to all non-projectile reversals, instead of the actual move itself? Shotos get punished harder for cr.mk xx DP execution errors than characters who don’t have to deal with this. Grapplers can still mash command grabs during pressure strings and on wake up without having to worry about the counter-hit damage.
On offense grapplers can play all sorts of mixup games that leave them in a superior advantage than people who make you guess between throw and DP, so why does committing to a DP leave you far more punishable than committing to a command grab?
I don’t think they put enough thought into this mechanic and I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets changed.
Right. It’s not a very necessary change, it’s kinda more like something they just did to further promote putting your life on the line to get something invincible. Just in the basic sense of appealing to hardcore players, if your DP’s carry a lot of risk that inevitably helps players that are willing to block more than those that had safe DP or attack invincible backdash to free them out of situations.
It’s more so about defense than offense. Command grabs have slower start up in SFV now too so I’m not sure how effective overall mashing grab on wake up will be for them. The whiff recovery is really awful on most command grabs too so I’m not sure if using them to beat offense is gonna be ideal in general.
They might change it, but I think only if you get some crazy situation where people are so afraid to DP that they just don’t DP anymore. Which I don’t think will happen and why I feel it most likely will stay.
Non-invincible moves can have their start-ups crushed. Moves with invincible start-up can have their recoveries crushed. I dunno, I think there’s kind of a charming logic to it.
Not a fan of the CC on DP whiff mechanic, seems an over the top implementation that makes the actual reward of going for a DP seem lackluster. Honestly would like to see it removed, I feel like having full punishes is enough of a reason to not want to DP, especially considering overall damage outputs.
I’ve said this before, but they should make DPs CC to make them more of a “high risk/high reward” option.
It’s just one of those things like only super chip killing that they are just going to let rock and see where it goes.
One thing I would like to see is some sort of online system in place to where you can play against one type of player, let me explain.
One of my favorite games all time is a online third person shooter called socom 2. I remember back in the day my clan and I would go into lobbies and play in the “chain reaction only” rooms or “crossroad only” room for practice for clan battles. I would be pretty sick if there was a room where players can enter and wait in a lobby where they will play one player, while the other person entering an pick whoever they wanted. The reason would be say you really don’t have many experience against a certain player and you are getting ready for a tournament, you haven’t made it out to locals much and all you played was the same shoto or mika online. This would allow you to get experience against a certain character on the fly (or when there is that certain character online to play). Also it doesn’t have to be for anything, say you just want to play a Cammys just cause, you would have the option to. This doesn’t really effect gameplay its just another wrinkle into CFN capabilities. I’m all about options when it comes to games I play and I feel this would be a welcome addition.
Should be possible. CFN already has a “favorite character” feature, so a mode to filter players based on that or added on to the unranked match filters should be pretty simple for Capcom.
On it’s surface 3S is hella simple compared to 4. Mechanically, much much simpler.
Complexity is kinda meaningless when all it does is add avenues with their own different counters.
That leads to a game where OS dominate every single choice because there are too many choices at any one moment.
In my awful opinion that’s what SF4 is. That’s what it felt like and that’s fine if that’s what you like but it felt complex for, in some cases, no reason. Just because they had painted themselves into a corner and the only solution without tearing things down entirely way to keep adding.
Compare parry to focus. Which is more complex.
Does that make each interaction any deeper as far as the mind to mind interaction? I think the answer is pretty firmly ‘No’ when the players have developed as many ways as possible to reduce the number of choices by way of OS. In every game this is a natural progression but if you can cut down on the way options can be covered by the same choices, you can also cut down on the choices to be made without impacting the depth of decision making.
I just want them to add more damage to throws. If they did like 150+ damage they would actually be a threat and people would want to press more buttons, leading to more frame trap mind games.
Throws do plenty of damage…
My view is that ‘casual players’ wouldn’t know a hitconfirm, HKD or notice grab range reductions from a shit lined shoe.
Capcom: "Hitconfirms stemming from lights in SF5 are no longer an entry point for characters doing major damage in SF5."
Casual: “Wat. How to ardooget?”
Probably the biggest thing for casual dudes is the ease of execution, but even then, most casual dudes could “make Ken do flames” without too much trouble in SFIV. 1080 degrees on a stick + KKPPPSTARTSELECTPPPSPACEBARCTRLESCAPECAPSLOCKRIGHTMOUSECLICKPKPKPKPKKPK works good enough.
Point taken though. Generally speaking Capcom are going to great lengths to convince dudes that SF5 will have a lowered barrier of entry, particularly from an execution standpoint. My mate who doesn’t play (but likes to watch) likes how he can “do some stuff” in SF5 and likes Ryu’s accessible target combos to deal decent damage for example. Likewise for some characters’ functional V-Skills. It gave him some confidence and satisfaction in pulling stuff off when playing which was cool to see. Capcom did mention similar things when SFIV dropped also, but it wasn’t near as much as a design focus.
Hopefully that (the ease of execution) translates to a gateway drug of sorts for dudes sticking with the game and getting a feel or exposure to what goes on underneath the mental hood so to speak. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
That’s exactly the case and great post. Those things are totally irrelevant to actual new/inexperienced players.
They’re irrelevant to most players tbh but everyone has an opinion.
How do you transition someone from just mashing and seeing fireworks into understanding and making the choices they want?
It’s a really difficult question to answer but I think one of the key elements for any game to get its players to take that leap from completely casual, incidental gameplay to deliberate, planned execution is to keep them playing.
To keep them playing you need to make those first basic achievements easy to obtain. We all here take for granted our muscle memory and how long it took to develop from zero.
The great thing about earlier games was such a focus on single button normals. These are moves which anyone can perform reliably. Strings too are the same, once the player decides they want to actually do that particular string, they just need to focus on timing which is much simpler than timing + stick commands.
Nintendo is still the king of teaching how to play their games. Games which are often deceptively deep.
An example would be Splatoon. This game is a shooter. Shooting is extremely important, but more important than shooting is understanding the options you have at any moment and taking advantage of position. There are weapons which require little accuracy all the way up to very high accuracy. So if someone is brand new to shooting games, they can start with something that doesn’t require pinpoint accuracy and still splat people and contribute to their team in a meaningful way. As they get better at controlling their character they can try things which require more accuracy. Their initial successes encourage them to keep playing. ‘I CAN do that…’. Once someone is in that loop, as long as they like the game conceptually they usually stick around.
Part of me still thinks that that’s the reason we got characters like 3S Chun and Cable back in the day (didn’t they know that the latter was busted even before release).
The damage is kind of low, it’s just that there are so many command throws and so many normal throws that have good oki that it works anyway.
Yeah there’s also something to be said about making the player feel like they’re actually doing something with some kind of impact.
That was part of the thinking behind ultras I imagine. Let’s give the losing player something cool and flashy that does big damage and makes them feel like a comeback is possible.
It’s great on a casual level… a very strong comparison would be blue shell, bullet bill, lightning, infinite mushrooms, etc. when you’re in the bottom half in any of the newer mario karts on the last lap.
I’m still not super into it even in 5. But I think it’s a better implementation since there are more ways to earn it and spend it.
It’s just challenging to work out because they have things set up as you do damage, you gain super, you take damage, you gain v-meter. So the specifics of that balance between the two are definitely a challenge design wise. Initially it might be a bit off but that’s expected, the tons of player feedback with a stable version will resolve things over time. I just hope they don’t go nuts with system mechanic creep as they iterate. I’d like to see character specific mechanics, not system wide. v-skill kind of supports that concept as its open ended.
My issue with the current universal mechanics is that some of them are so weak they can be ignored. Stun output is minimal and chip damage on normals is never a valid reason not to block. So the game feels empty regarding universal mechanics and in need of additional ones.
Yet people are figuring out combos that do 80-90% stun.