Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

[itsOneO]

I would like to see more Just-Frame tech like Karin’s Tenko with other characters. For example: Giving Ryu a Just-Frame Red fireball that does more damage & knocks down, or Nash a Just-Frame sonic boom with less startup.

I feel like Karin has so much more technical depth now, and a few other cast members could use that depth also to make SFV more exciting. … otherwise I’ll just be Karin and perfect her “Just-Frame Tenko x V Trigger activate x Rekkas x CA” epic combo.

[Running_Wild]

Who the fuck plays footsies with standing heavies in the hopes of landing a counter-hit?

KOF12 players!

Remember the Critical Counter gimmick? Hey let’s give you the chance to do big damaging combo’s, but only on counter hit… also need to build up a special meter to initiate the counter hit! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAiUHveiwDQ

#Kappa

[Tebbo]

Damage on certain normals/characters should be increased. Some characters here seem to be getting only 150+ off a meterless bnb. Compare with the last beta where certain characters could get 250 meterless.

Who is only doing 150ish?

I’ve seen plenty of backdashing in 3S. But maybe that’s just because of all the SF4 players that have been getting in on 3S lately. But you can’t say “nobody backdashes in 3S”. They do. Characters who score a knockdown via throw or sweep etc that have no follow-up except to dash in, will get the other player to back dash cuz they don’t have a way to prevent it. And any distance the knocked down player can make when they’re technically at frame disadvantage is good.

I even do some sneaky shit like wake-up forward parry fish to back jump just cuz I don’t want to deal with Makoto or Alex’s oki and I won’t respect it.

But a lot of that bullshit depends on if I have a life lead or not. I’f I’m sitting at like a 40-50% life advantage, maybe I will just neutral jump against a grappler (at least in SF4 or SF5). In 3S I’d probably just super jump away unless I can react block or parry a strike.

It’s also possible to buffer a back dash within a block. Basically instead of holding back or down + back, you just press it once you get up, then backdash immediately afterward. The same applies to wake up and throw tech. First you wake up blocking, then if the other player didn’t put you in a block string, you could throw them out of a committed frame trap. It’s why sometimes you would see players in SF4 go from crouch block to stand block during a block string. They were buffering throw inside of the block string.

And I’m not saying you should respect characters that have no wake-up in SF5. I’m saying you should respect V-reversal as it can nullify your oki. So in that, going for a regular throw, or delaying your next attack could be good. If you see a player backdash, just react sweep them or pressure them with an attack that’s safe enough that could also catch a backdash. We can at least conclude that’ll be a habit a lot of players will have a hard time dropping.

I said no one backdashes on wakeup.
People backdash in general plenty when poking which is a huge portion of 3S. Also on the opponents wakeup if you’re baiting something.

But no one backdashes on their own wakeup. People don’t backdash after teching.
The result after a throw and tech is back to neutral and your opponent is close to you. There’s no reason to backdash since it gives them a free low or projectile or basically anything. Instead you can just block. Which is why every player with a modicum of understanding will block/throwtech or look for a reversal opportunity.

[Metroxylon]

I’ve seen plenty of backdashing in 3S. But maybe that’s just because of all the SF4 players that have been getting in on 3S lately. But you can’t say “nobody backdashes in 3S”. They do. Characters who score a knockdown via throw or sweep etc that have no follow-up except to dash in, will get the other player to back dash cuz they don’t have a way to prevent it. And any distance the knocked down player can make when they’re technically at frame disadvantage is good.

I even do some sneaky shit like wake-up forward parry fish to back jump just cuz I don’t want to deal with Makoto or Alex’s oki and I won’t respect it.

But a lot of that bullshit depends on if I have a life lead or not. I’f I’m sitting at like a 40-50% life advantage, maybe I will just neutral jump against a grappler (at least in SF4 or SF5). In 3S I’d probably just super jump away unless I can react block or parry a strike.

It’s also possible to buffer a back dash within a block. Basically instead of holding back or down + back, you just press it once you get up, then backdash immediately afterward. The same applies to wake up and throw tech. First you wake up blocking, then if the other player didn’t put you in a block string, you could throw them out of a committed frame trap. It’s why sometimes you would see players in SF4 go from crouch block to stand block during a block string. They were buffering throw inside of the block string.

And I’m not saying you should respect characters that have no wake-up in SF5. I’m saying you should respect V-reversal as it can nullify your oki. So in that, going for a regular throw, or delaying your next attack could be good. If you see a player backdash, just react sweep them or pressure them with an attack that’s safe enough that could also catch a backdash. We can at least conclude that’ll be a habit a lot of players will have a hard time dropping.

I said no one backdashes on wakeup.
People backdash in general plenty when poking which is a huge portion of 3S. Also on the opponents wakeup if you’re baiting something.

But no one backdashes on their own wakeup. People don’t backdash after teching.
The result after a throw and tech is back to neutral and your opponent is close to you. There’s no reason to backdash since it gives them a free low or projectile or basically anything. Instead you can just block. Which is why every player with a modicum of understanding will block/throwtech or look for a reversal opportunity.

Nice insinuation there suggesting my post lacked even basic understanding of the 3S meta just because I stated people backdash. And they do even backdash on wake-up given the situation. Not every knock down is a guaranteed oki situation. And I’m just leaving it at that.

Just like clockwork, first match, first round, the Oro player backdashes on wake-up.

https://youtu.be/zBhhKaiDtNY

[Tebbo]

Ok. If you wanted to point out that it can be done and it exists, sure. My opinion is unchanged but yes it exists, I was speaking in hyperbole and being rude.

On to SF5.

Unlike 3S where after a blocked normalxxspecial you’re spaced back out, in SF5 there’s an awkward close in moment where both players are wondering whether to jab/short or try and counter those. Pushback is so small. The awkwardness could be just from it being new and no one being that used to that situation and the available choices yet.

[Greenwood]

I’m sure it’s been mentioned, but…

I think an EX move should be able to kill with chip.

[d3v]

I’m sure it’s been mentioned, but…

I think an EX move should be able to kill with chip.

Then that defeats the purpose of not being able to kill with chip because, for the most part, EXs are what people use to kill with chip.

[Greenwood]

Good point, but I’ve killed plenty of people via chip with a regular Hadoken, which is what I thought was the main reason for the no chip kill. I figured it would be a compromise and a bit of a reward for having meter.

[Metroxylon]

Good point, but I’ve killed plenty of people via chip with a regular Hadoken, which is what I thought was the main reason for the no chip kill. I figured it would be a compromise and a bit of a reward for having meter.

If having meter was more of a reward than simply having meter, then every fucking loser who doesn’t know how to use meter will win most of their games when they have their “aha! I still have all my meter” moments and just spray it all out randomly.

Off-topic but one reason I hate USF4 is for how much Seth was nerfed. I’m finding less situations I can just use meter to extend combos because he gets out-footsied by so many characters, and too often c.MK xx boom is too far out of range to combo. I’m able to get less openings when other characters have faster lights, faster walk speed, and overall better normals. 3/5 of the new characters have easy and reliable combos out of overhead while Seth’s divekick has never been repaired since it was nerfed from Vanilla. What a huge “fuck you” from Capcom, in my book.

Oh but canceling c.MK to SPD, that’s extremely useful… thanks for the 50 health buff and 1 new and impractical combo.

[ES_Curse]

I’ve been thinking we need some changes to make V-Gauge build faster:
-V-Skills need to build 1/4 or 1/5 bar, not 1/7
-Add a toned down Just Defend that reduces chip and builds 1/7 bar
-The same reversals that can be Crush Countered on block build 1/5 bar on counter hit
-ACTIVELY building V-Gauge during an install V-Trigger extends the time

Of the beta matches I’ve seen, over 90% of the V-Gauge built seems to come from taking damage. We need not only more built from V-Skills, we need other ways to build it for characters like Chun and Ken with unsafe skills that they struggle to combo into. If that puts the build rate too high, then reduce the amount currently built by losing health and landing a Crush Counter.

[otori]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

[DevilJin_01]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

Yeah I was playing the super official version of the game yesterday and realized that I couldn’t get more than 2 EX bars on average if I just beat up the dummy until they died.

[Muttonman]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

Yeah I was playing the super official version of the game yesterday and realized that I couldn’t get more than 2 EX bars on average if I just beat up the dummy until they died.

We were doing practice fights which are just one round affairs and nobody got a full bar to my recollection.

I do think VSkills should build more bar though, as using one offensively tends to have a worse payoff than a similar move in terms of damage/stun/positioning.

[otori]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

Yeah I was playing the super official version of the game yesterday and realized that I couldn’t get more than 2 EX bars on average if I just beat up the dummy until they died.

I do think VSkills should build more bar though, as using one offensively tends to have a worse payoff than a similar move in terms of damage/stun/positioning.

I like this tension, you choose damage or meter.

But many v-skills are too restricted and you barely if ever get them to connect. Bison’s, Ken’s, Cammy’s come to mind. And Ryu builds way too little meter it’s ridiculous…I think they were worried about parrying multihit moves, but imo they definetly need to find another solution to that.

[Muttonman]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

Yeah I was playing the super official version of the game yesterday and realized that I couldn’t get more than 2 EX bars on average if I just beat up the dummy until they died.

I do think VSkills should build more bar though, as using one offensively tends to have a worse payoff than a similar move in terms of damage/stun/positioning.

I like this tension, you choose damage or meter.

But many v-skills are too restricted and you barely if ever get them to connect. Bison’s, Ken’s, Cammy’s come to mind. And Ryu builds way too little meter it’s ridiculous…I think they were worried about parrying multihit moves, but imo they definetly need to find another solution to that.

I agree, I just think that the meter payoff is kind of terrible right now in addition to VS being super matchup dependent. Bison will never use his if they don’t have a fireball (and probably never use it if they do have one because they won’t chuck plasma) while Karin can combo into hers.

I just think that making Ryu’s VS a parry was a really stupid idea and don’t know how I’d make it useful and balanced

[ES_Curse]

And Ryu builds way too little meter it’s ridiculous…I think they were worried about parrying multihit moves, but imo they definetly need to find another solution to that.

V-Gauge gain reduces exponentially? (100%, 90%, 60%, 10% minimum scaling). He gains a lot off single hits, but multi hits rarely give him a free Trigger.

[d3v]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

Yeah I was playing the super official version of the game yesterday and realized that I couldn’t get more than 2 EX bars on average if I just beat up the dummy until they died.

I do think VSkills should build more bar though, as using one offensively tends to have a worse payoff than a similar move in terms of damage/stun/positioning.

I like this tension, you choose damage or meter.

But many v-skills are too restricted and you barely if ever get them to connect. Bison’s, Ken’s, Cammy’s come to mind. And Ryu builds way too little meter it’s ridiculous…I think they were worried about parrying multihit moves, but imo they definetly need to find another solution to that.

People need to stop sleeping on this. While it starts up slow, not only does it lead into a full BnB whether or not it crosses up, it’s also plus on block and can be used to frame trap.

[Muttonman]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

Yeah I was playing the super official version of the game yesterday and realized that I couldn’t get more than 2 EX bars on average if I just beat up the dummy until they died.

I do think VSkills should build more bar though, as using one offensively tends to have a worse payoff than a similar move in terms of damage/stun/positioning.

I like this tension, you choose damage or meter.

But many v-skills are too restricted and you barely if ever get them to connect. Bison’s, Ken’s, Cammy’s come to mind. And Ryu builds way too little meter it’s ridiculous…I think they were worried about parrying multihit moves, but imo they definetly need to find another solution to that.

People need to stop sleeping on this. While it starts up slow, not only does it lead into a full BnB whether or not it crosses up, it’s also plus on block and can be used to frame trap.

I wonder how annoying you can get it to be to block in an oki situation

[RandomBS]

Good point, but I’ve killed plenty of people via chip with a regular Hadoken, which is what I thought was the main reason for the no chip kill. I figured it would be a compromise and a bit of a reward for having meter.

If having meter was more of a reward than simply having meter, then every fucking loser who doesn’t know how to use meter will win most of their games when they have their “aha! I still have all my meter” moments and just spray it all out randomly.

Off-topic but one reason I hate USF4 is for how much Seth was nerfed. I’m finding less situations I can just use meter to extend combos because he gets out-footsied by so many characters, and too often c.MK xx boom is too far out of range to combo. I’m able to get less openings when other characters have faster lights, faster walk speed, and overall better normals. 3/5 of the new characters have easy and reliable combos out of overhead while Seth’s divekick has never been repaired since it was nerfed from Vanilla. What a huge “fuck you” from Capcom, in my book.

Oh but canceling c.MK to SPD, that’s extremely useful… thanks for the 50 health buff and 1 new and impractical combo.

Seth is a pure cancer faggot character, so yeah you don’t even deserve what you have. And hes STILL considered high tier in japan and wins tournaments. But this is off-topic, of course

[otori]

Whoa I completely disagree. With poor gameplay during beta most people were getting 4 bars per round (two uses out of 2 bar v-triggers), that should go up a lot once people implement crush counters and are more defensive (white health gives v-meter). Also v-skills in general build 1/2 a bar on successful usage (hit/aborb) though how useful they’re for building is very different between characters.

If anything I think actual meter builds too slow

Yeah I was playing the super official version of the game yesterday and realized that I couldn’t get more than 2 EX bars on average if I just beat up the dummy until they died.

I do think VSkills should build more bar though, as using one offensively tends to have a worse payoff than a similar move in terms of damage/stun/positioning.

I like this tension, you choose damage or meter.

But many v-skills are too restricted and you barely if ever get them to connect. Bison’s, Ken’s, Cammy’s come to mind. And Ryu builds way too little meter it’s ridiculous…I think they were worried about parrying multihit moves, but imo they definetly need to find another solution to that.

People need to stop sleeping on this. While it starts up slow, not only does it lead into a full BnB whether or not it crosses up, it’s also plus on block and can be used to frame trap.

Hey man if it works for you as a cammy player more power to you, maybe you folks can come up with setups to make it useful, but in neutral it’s as bad as in SFIV and you just need to press a button to get a counterhit.