I hope this is where this ends up going. I remember during the first beta people talked about how useless it was, happy to see it getting a bit more utility.
Will they, though? Why would you respect the wake up of a character like Vega, Nash, or Bison, who literally have no reversal options except wake up super. Backdashing is basically not blocking at all on your wake up, that’s a bold move if you have no reversal to back it up.
Definitely you do not backdash on wakeup. Not a single person does that in 3S since that’s a surefire way to get meatied and take a whoooooole lot more damage than just blocking. Backdashing in general to make them whiff and what not, sure. But no one is backdashes on wakeup in 3S.
It’ll be a bit more like 3S I guess where people simply wakeup and look to see what’s going on unless they really think they know what the opponent is going to do.
Characters without stuff like shoryu probably have ex grabs that have some kind of invulnerability or armor and/or are fast with greater range than normal throws or they’re just meant to not have too many options on defense which is fine too (Makoto in 3S).
I’ve seen plenty of backdashing in 3S. But maybe that’s just because of all the SF4 players that have been getting in on 3S lately. But you can’t say “nobody backdashes in 3S”. They do. Characters who score a knockdown via throw or sweep etc that have no follow-up except to dash in, will get the other player to back dash cuz they don’t have a way to prevent it. And any distance the knocked down player can make when they’re technically at frame disadvantage is good.
I even do some sneaky shit like wake-up forward parry fish to back jump just cuz I don’t want to deal with Makoto or Alex’s oki and I won’t respect it.
But a lot of that bullshit depends on if I have a life lead or not. I’f I’m sitting at like a 40-50% life advantage, maybe I will just neutral jump against a grappler (at least in SF4 or SF5). In 3S I’d probably just super jump away unless I can react block or parry a strike.
It’s also possible to buffer a back dash within a block. Basically instead of holding back or down + back, you just press it once you get up, then backdash immediately afterward. The same applies to wake up and throw tech. First you wake up blocking, then if the other player didn’t put you in a block string, you could throw them out of a committed frame trap. It’s why sometimes you would see players in SF4 go from crouch block to stand block during a block string. They were buffering throw inside of the block string.
And I’m not saying you should respect characters that have no wake-up in SF5. I’m saying you should respect V-reversal as it can nullify your oki. So in that, going for a regular throw, or delaying your next attack could be good. If you see a player backdash, just react sweep them or pressure them with an attack that’s safe enough that could also catch a backdash. We can at least conclude that’ll be a habit a lot of players will have a hard time dropping.
Ibukis back dash has a lot of recovery in 3S so I tend not to back dash with her much. Either walk back, block, parry or yolo ex dp to kunai or super
Twelve got dat 0 frame start up back dash
I’ve realized there’s one mechanic Dimps forgot to put in the game:
Block stun on normals.
Can we have that?
Damage on certain normals/characters should be increased. Some characters here seem to be getting only 150+ off a meterless bnb. Compare with the last beta where certain characters could get 250 meterless.
I just feel like the characters in this beta are just unfinished.
The most complete characters I’ve played so far were Ryu, Bison and Karin.
Ken and Necalli are both pieces of shit and need a lot of work.
- imo if SRK moves are getting crush countered, so should CAs
- I don’t mind the pushback on the normals and that you cant link lights into med/heavy normals but at least make them touch the opponent so we can continue applying pressure. Most characters have their normals completely whiffing the opponent after they blocked 2 light punches/kick
I brought up the lights needing less pushback thing. Need to strike a middle ground for them being useful for tick pressure without them leading into medium and heavy normal bnbs.
Tbh I don’t understand why a shoryuken gets you CC’d on landing, you’d think the regular full punish alone would be enough. Now you have to risk taking even more damage with each reveral, I love that I can blow people up with some style for free after an SRK but god damn it seems like a lot.
They are basically making this game a lot like an anime game as far as “exceptions to the rule” for instance in most streetfighters there is no restriction on what you can cancel into. If you can cancel the move then you can cancel anything cancelable into it. But with ken on this game he can’t cancel is st.hk into any specials or supers. But he CAN cancel it into his v trigger and v skill.
Then on his target combo he can cancel into his specials and supers and even his v trigger… But not into his v skill.
I have a feeling there will be many things like this in this game.
There is definitely some weird stuff like that.
I also don’t like how making a cancelable whiffed normal works in this game. In 3S usually holding a button during a normal can fake it. Like holding HK during f+HK to fake the overhead with Ken. In SFV it’s the opposite. Holding HK down causes the kick to release and just pressing it fakes it instead. Weird to wrap my head around at the moment. Ken’s and Gief’s V Skills are like that too.
Add me to the list of people confused by differences between what you expect hitboxes to be based on the animation of the move and what actually happens. Necalli has a few of these, where a move you expect to hit will whiff through the opponent’s body. I understand the need to tweak these a little bit as the game moves on, but these seem to be some pretty large differences.
I don’t know if that could be a good idea but:
- less pushback on lights normals (reduced by half?)
- Normals are the same frame advantage on hit and block -> could allow better pressure
- Frame advantage on lights are always at least 1F lower than the startup of medium/heavy normals on the 1st active frame (e.g fr.adv of crLP is +4 on hit/block and crMP is 5F startup this allows links on counter hit or meaties)
right now I think a lot characters are made this way:
- pressure is gone after 2 lights
- can link 2 medium normals (stMP->crMP/crMK or something similar sometimes you can combo into light normals like vega)
- heavy 2 hits command normals can be link into a medium normal for some characters
for me its just that I find a lot of links between normals are quite redundant and I feel they could do a lot more
Basically:
Faster movespeed.
More damage pls.
Less pushback on hit light attacks, or make it so that on block they have the same pushback, or at least nearly the same. Right now it’s pretty ridiculous the difference in how far ken is pushed out by a blocked crouching jab versus a hit one.
More range on throws if none of this other stuff is implemented… Throw range is terrible right now but the issue is made much worse by making jabs push away on hit or mediums needing to be stringed together to confirm. Making people choose between the 2 isn’t wise because the game will devolve into nothing but boring safety… And since nothing is safe… The game will devolve into a bunch of nothing with small outbursts of action.
It’s pretty obvious carry-over from the focus attack system, except that the attack comes out at a predetermined time, and you can’t choose whenever to do the attack or when to dash/fake out. It’s a commitment thing again and will require relearning.
Slightly faster walkspeed and slightly longer ranges could go a long way. The pushback on block may feel more natural if there were more ranges that felt comfortable to attack from. It felt like somebody overseas had a serious case of agoraphobia when making Necalli.
I think V-Trigger’s use-it-or-lose-it philosophy is fine–it’s analogous to Ultras–but could be very interesting if it carried over between rounds. I can’t help but feel like we’ll never see 4-bar V-Gauges, and carrying over could make for more adventurous V-Triggers. It could also diversify characters between short-term and long-term use, like Vega or Necalli. It would be pretty cool to have rounds where V-Trigger is available immediately, though I can see the problems with that. V-Reversals aren’t all that bad, but if V-Gauge carried over they might get jacked up to compensate for the increased commitment.
I think that’s where I’m going with this: to me, V-Triggers feel relatively noncommittal, and having V-Gauge carry over–while perhaps too similar to the super meter, or less balanced–would change that.
EDIT: Also, a CH effect on blocked DPs seems counterintuitive. If damage and stun were bumped back up it wouldn’t be needed.
I would like more variety with the Critical Arts like making them select-able or able to use more than one.
I’m with the Majority less push back on normals. Tweak some numbers for more frames traps etc.