I'm really liking this game, but I'm getting a little worried

Classic Fighting Games Skullgirls
121

No, I’m trying to say that people offering up the lazy response of “go play DoA if you don’t like long combos” are necessarily undermining the entire reason IPS exists.

IPS does not exist to stop 1-touch kills, nor does it exist because infinites are too easy. It exists because they are boring, repetitive, and long. And guess what? Under IPS, we still have boring, repetitive combos that last for ages.

Some of you are making the argument that it’s OK because you have to keep things fresh and unique by inserting in a new normal. This is a fantastic argument for week 2 but will not seem so compelling in week 20 when people have their canned chain segments all down.

And I’m sorry, but (from what I can see) meter in this game is simply not good enough to make the argument that it’s worth giving up damage for. Even in Marvel, how many times can you recall IM or Dante intentionally dropping a kill combo for a reset just because Cable or Vergil were up next?

122

i didnt know that we had a time traveler here

123

Create neutral game where the oppotent struggles to touch them.
[media=youtube]D3DMIGHItNg[/media]
Skullgirl is not completely dominated by rushdown. Invincible Assists are one of the reasons why Rushdown is not invincible. I’m not quite sure why you are watching combo videos over actual matches of SG.

Anyway I cool people don’t like the IPS, but I don’t believe that we know what the game needs right now.

124

Except Mike Z already said that he’s okay with long combos so that just means that IPS exists to stop easy infinite loops and not for any of the other reasons you listed.

You’re still welcome to go play DOA and spam counters all day if you don’t like it.

125

I really dislike very long combo, except if they are very very hard to execute, difficult enough to see most top player regularly fail them (bulleta’s infinite or fuerte’s RSF 5+ loop style). Skullgirls may have some of them, but for the most part, it’s easy, repetitive, boring long combo. Like Spider-Dan, I will not say no to a most restrictive IPS.

126

You might want to ask Mike Z if that’s the exact and only reason he put IPS in the game first.

At least wait for week 20 to come by first like all the other games got their chance to.

Iron Man had infinites that only spend one meter and was probably the easiest infinite in the game (least what I’ve heard). He was basically Zero in the sense that if he hit you, he spent one meter and you were dead. How many Zeros are we gonna get in this game? That remains to be seen.

You haven’t been watching too much high level Marvel 3 play if you haven’t seen Dante players go for resets.

Either way there’s much more incentive to go for resets in this game than probably MVC2 even with what you’re bringing up since plenty of the combos will end you in a standing situation that is very easy to captilize off of into more damage since you get access to high/low/throw/cross up etc. when they’re standing.

127

Would the game really be all that different without people cycling through the same chain with a different starter repeatedly? “Gameplay” is at the neutral game. There’s not really much gameplay going on while people cycle through their routine combo of the same chain over and over starting with different lights. Complacency on how a game should be without feedback from players is just… close minded.

People on the internet just can’t have an open discussion sometimes. It’s disheartening. Don’t get your panties in a bunch because we have different opinions man.

THIS. This exactly.

People are also throwing out the argument that we need to give it time, but really, how much more do people need in combos? The option to do the repetitive strings is there and it kills people. There won’t be any motivation to find more creative combos when that easy stuff works. No motivation to cut it short and do crazy resets when you can just do the combo and if it doesn’t kill them, cut it short by one hit and do a mixup as they come out of hit stun.

128

Yes, I traveled from the past (where people made arguments like yours) to the present (where I know from experience how they turn out).

So then:

j.HK, j.HK, j.HK, j.HK, j.HK, j.HK, j.HK = easy, stupid infinite

HOWEVER

j.HK, j.LP-j.HK, j.LK-j.HK, j.MP-j.HK, j.MK-j.HK, j.HP-j.HK, j.HK = high-skill combo

If you really think that the problem with infinites is that they aren’t using enough variety in their normals, I encourage you to check out some XvSF combo videos.

129

You’re going to have to bring that up with Mike if anything as I couldn’t care less what you think is a high skill combo or an easy stupid infinite.
He implemented the system based on how he sees easy infinites and high skill combos so shrug if you think I’m implying that.
I don’t have a problem with infinites easy or hard, whether I do them or I get hit by them. All I know is that if I get hit I deserve to get hit with whatever the opponent can smack me with and the opposite is true.
And whether the spectators or the guy getting combo’d finds it boring, well that’s just too bad for them.
Some people find losing bad, so the next big thing is making a fighting game that everybody wins.

130

I’m not even offering an opinion on which infinites are “hard” or “easy”. My point is that it’s incredibly hypocritical to criticize easy infinites while you are simultaneously praising the long combos in SG, which are (currently) frequently comprised of the same-ass loop over and over but with a different irrelevant normal tacked on the front each cycle.

This is not “high-skill”.

P.S. In case this part was unclear, I like Skullgirls. I also like Corvettes. But don’t try to sell me a Corvette and tell me it’s a spaceship, because it ain’t.

131

That’s fine…just let the game play out first though is all I’m saying. IPS is just the way Skullgirls handles it instead of the older way. It’s just what was implemented and some people will like it, some won’t.

The main point of this thread is someone wants to know why there’s still long combos when IPS is in…and that’s because IPS isn’t supposed to stop long combos. Thread should have ended there really.

132

Question then, whats the difference between an infinite and a loop that looks like an infinite that does 100%?

133

A lot of people seem to be mad that the IPS is working exactly as designed.

Weird seeing an old player saying anything about the end game on week 2.

134

oh lord, do i have to quote my other posts?
really
why i am surprised that your typical srk member doesnt read and keeps all the discussions in a cycle ad infinitum

and no, gameplay is not at the neutral game, gameplay is at all the different levels of the game
and before you try to reply to me, read what i wrote before (wich i doubt that you will anyway)

i really dont think that you had read my posts, since my only argument here has been
a) long combos are part of the game
b) there are other options besides sg that can fit your taste
c) people complaining about something that is part of the game would not accomplish anything

135

One is an infinite and the other is a loop that looks like an infinite that does 100 percent.

136

My problem with the combo system is 2 fold right now.

1)minimum damage is too high
every loop of MissFortune’s nomnom loop does like 500-600damage a rep at minimum damage, making massive combo>Super>DHC>OTG>MissFortune loop some shit straight out of HnK

2)Optimal combos are easy to find, find your move that does alot of damage and doesn’t prorate much and spam it and put in a new normal before every hit once you get near max proration throw in full multihit moves that prorate like shit and/or reset.

Like I love the neutral game, but these are the current 2 winning playstyles right now.

  1. Do a really basic simple hard to drop combo and don’t finish it just keep resetting, this is pretty simple and leaves lots of meter free for using high level supers.

  2. Touch of death off everything, hit move do 200+ hit combo kill character…this is a bit more meter intensive and requires alot more practice but I feel it will eventually be what people are doing more.

So far though the characters seem fairly balanced at least.
A+: Painwheel, Double
A: Miss Fortune
B: Everyone Else

Is what it seems to me right now, but I think it is still too early to be asking for any nerfs/buffs.

137

Infinites/Loops are the same sequence of attacks. IPS stops that. Using a different normal =/= loop/infinite.

Of course, people seem to forget what “infinite” and “loop” meant and give it their own definition and then say IPS isn’t working when it is DOING EXACTLY WHAT IT IS DESIGNED TO DO.

138

For one of them, there is no requirement to change your timing and you can do it in your sleep.

For the other, you need to vary your timing, which does have an effect when you’re trying these long combos out, and at any point the timing might be off.

It’s easier to screw up your timing when the combo uses different sections with different timing. Additionally, not every character can do loops the same way, and not every combo that does 100% works on every character. Some chains are character-specific. Anything with an aerial chain changes timing with Cerebella and Double, or with lighter, smaller characters like Peacock. So not only do you have to adjust your timing continuously, you also have to take into consideration that not every character can get hit the same with your combo.

THIS is an infinite:
(s.LK, s.MK, s.HK)x100000

THIS is not:
s.LK, s.MP, s.MK, s.HK, c.LK, s.MP, c.MK, s.HP, c.LP, s.MK, s.HP, c.MP, c.HK (can not go any further whatsoever)

If it’s something that could be repeated forever, it’s an infinite.

If it’s something that uses the same attacks thrown in every few attacks or so, but at one point you HAVE to end it, it’s not an infinite.

139

I like how you quote only one part of my post without addressing the rest. Typical of the SRK superiority complex troll. har har, see I can make gross generalizations too.

As far as the gameplay, there is no gameplay from a person being comboed for 30 seconds. It’s a one sided interaction. You can say they have to look for resets from the opponent but really, they won’t need to reset when the combo kills, and if they do go for a reset, the ideal thing to do would be to do it later in the combo, so for the majority of the combo, they’ll just be sitting there watching you go through your chains. And like I said before it seems like in skullgirls, resets aren’t going to be a thing you have to sneak in on an opponent and hope they don’t notice like in games such as marvel. It’s more like “here’s a reset, you knew it was coming, too bad you still have to deal with it because you’re forced to stand RIGHT NOW”.

So, the only option is to avoid getting hit, which is difficult against a competent player using double’s butt assist because they get guaranteed mixups from almost anywhere on the screen every chance they get to call double.

I’ll give you the character specific stuff but that would apply to infinites as well really.

Using a different normal doesn’t really require much different timing. For instance with parasoul…
st.LP > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
cr.LP > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
cr.LK > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
st.LK > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
All of those chains have the exact same starting timing and look exactly the same minus the very first light attack.

I’m not saying IPS isn’t working. It obviously is. But it would be nice to see it recognize loops like that as part of it as well, if just to force some creativity from people.

140

Bullshit. At unmodified health and damage, I’ve yet to see a 100% combo that didn’t need a corner and ton of meter.

Post a 100% combo from 1 starting meter with unmodified health and damage if they exist and prove me wrong.