I'm really liking this game, but I'm getting a little worried

[Hecatom]

snip

just to be clear timing as for what mike explained to me is not part of what the ips takes in account when searching for loops, at least its what i understood at that time

also the badlands loop says otherwise, your timing while doing it varies from character, normal/special that you started with and how many reps have you done, so a loop can have different timings while you are doing it, gg has examples of that

[Jon_Slayton]

Bullshit. At unmodified health and damage, I’ve yet to see a 100% combo that didn’t need a corner and ton of meter.

Post a 100% combo from 1 starting meter with unmodified health and damage if they exist and prove me wrong.

Full loops give enough meter, and with the starting meter you just need to DHC once from the first character, the second gets to run through their chains the same as the first character.

I don’t have record equipment but with peacock / para / double I could do a full peacock combo, use the double assist to push them to the corner, teleport mid combo, do the charlie brown loop in the corner, end in argus agony, DHC to motorcycle gang super, then combo off that with parasoul and go through her chains as well with her corner loop and do 100% by the end of the combo. I’m sure this is possible with a lot of other characters variations of loops / DHCs as well. I know for a fact this would also work with cerebella in place of parasoul.

[Mr.X]

Full loops give enough meter, and with the starting meter you just need to DHC once from the first character, the second gets to run through their chains the same as the first character.

I don’t have record equipment but with peacock / para / double I could do a full peacock combo, use the double assist to push them to the corner, teleport mid combo, do the charlie brown loop in the corner, end in argus agony, DHC to motorcycle gang super, then combo off that with parasoul and go through her chains as well with her corner loop and do 100% by the end of the combo. I’m sure this is possible with a lot of other characters variations of loops / DHCs as well. I know for a fact this would also work with cerebella in place of parasoul.

Cell phone or webcam quality will suffice. Sounds like great combo video material regardless.

[guitalex2007]

just to be clear timing as for what mike explained to me is not part of what the ips takes in account when searching for loops, at least its what i understood at that time

also the badlands loop says otherwise, your timing while doing it varies from character, normal/special that you started with and how many reps have you done, so a loop can have different timings while you are doing it, gg has examples of that

Um… I never stated the IPS considers timing. I’m confused.

Also, loops aren’t infinites. Some loops can go on forever, which is an infinite.

[Hecatom]

Um… I never stated the IPS considers timing. I’m confused.

Also, loops aren’t infinites. Some loops can go on forever, which is an infinite.

well, i felt that you were implying that timing was part of the equation, for the way that you worded your posts, my bad then
and yes i know that there are loops that arent infinites, like the badlands loop, is not an infinite, and the number of reps is character dependamt, it doesnt even work in some charcaters

[Mr.X]

Using a different normal doesn’t really require much different timing. For instance with parasoul…
st.LP > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
cr.LP > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
cr.LK > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
st.LK > MP MP > HP HP teardrop
All of those chains have the exact same starting timing and look exactly the same minus the very first light attack.

I’m not saying IPS isn’t working. It obviously is. But it would be nice to see it recognize loops like that as part of it as well, if just to force some creativity from people.

MvC3 Mag’s Hyper Grav loop is a loop. It would be an infinite if it weren’t for HSD.

Parasoul Tear Shot “Loop” is not a loop or infinite simply because they don’t begin the same each time like the Hyper Grav loop. Please stop forgetting what a “loop” is defined as. You can loop at most twice at the beginning of the combo (stage 2 and 3), changing the normal, by definition, stops it from being a loop.

Asking IPS to prevent more than infinites goes against the purpose of what IPS was designed to do.

[Spider-Dan]

Um… I never stated the IPS considers timing. I’m confused.

Let me help:

For one of them, there is no requirement to change your timing and you can do it in your sleep.

For the other, you need to vary your timing, which does have an effect when you’re trying these long combos out, and at any point the timing might be off.

It’s easier to screw up your timing when the combo uses different sections with different timing. Additionally, not every character can do loops the same way, and not every combo that does 100% works on every character. Some chains are character-specific. Anything with an aerial chain changes timing with Cerebella and Double, or with lighter, smaller characters like Peacock. So not only do you have to adjust your timing continuously, you also have to take into consideration that not every character can get hit the same with your combo.

Oh, and as for different characters requiring different sequences for a combo to work, because of their weight, height, or width? You may have seen this before in every Marvel game ever. Does that legitimize infinites in those games?

[Spider-Dan]

MvC3 Mag’s Hyper Grav loop is a loop. It would be an infinite if it weren’t for HSD.

Parasoul Tear Shot “Loop” is not a loop or infinite simply because they don’t begin the same each time like the Hyper Grav loop.

Um, they end the same each time, and the important part (s.HP into tear) is the same each time.

You mean to tell me that loops only “count” if they are exactly the same sequence of moves with exactly the same timing each cycle?

[Jon_Slayton]

Parasoul Tear Shot “Loop” is not a loop or infinite simply because they don’t begin the same each time like the Hyper Grav loop. Please stop forgetting what a “loop” is defined as. You can loop at most twice at the beginning of the combo (stage 2 and 3), changing the normal, by definition, stops it from being a loop.

Asking IPS to prevent more than infinites goes against the purpose of what IPS was designed to do.

I mean, starting a… semi quasi demi-loop with different light attacks that all serve the same function in the combo is… still pretty much just a loop. Saying it’s not a loop is just being anal, because it blatantly is. The only thing keeping it from not being an infinite in this system is that there are only 4-8 moves you can start the chain with. But it’s still enough to make the combo last a good while and still look almost exactly the same through each rep.

By that definition a “loop” and an “infinite loop” are the same thing. A loop becomes an infinite when the system mechanics aren’t in place to stop it from continuing. The only thing keeping that combo from being an infinite is the IPS, so instead it’s a loop.

[guitalex2007]

Let me help:

Oh, and as for different characters requiring different sequences for a combo to work, because of their weight, height, or width? You may have seen this before in every Marvel game ever. Does that legitimize infinites in those games?

Thanks for the unwanted help, but the post wasn’t referring to the requirements of IPS. It was asking about the difference between a 100% loop and a 100% that looks like a loop.

Loops are repetitions. UNCHANGED repetitions. Change anything, and it’s not a loop.

Can it go on forever? No? Then it’s not an infinite. EASY PEEZY.

[Mr.X]

Let me help:

Oh, and as for different characters requiring different sequences for a combo to work, because of their weight, height, or width? You may have seen this before in every Marvel game ever. Does that legitimize infinites in those games?

You just bolded timing, he still didn’t say anything resembling IPS considers timing.

[Mr.X]

Um, they end the same each time, and the important part (s.HP into tear) is the same each time.

You mean to tell me that loops only “count” if they are exactly the same sequence of moves with exactly the same timing each cycle?

I mean, starting a… semi quasi demi-loop with different light attacks that all serve the same function in the combo is… still pretty much just a loop. Saying it’s not a loop is just being anal, because it blatantly is. The only thing keeping it from not being an infinite in this system is that there are only 4-8 moves you can start the chain with. But it’s still enough to make the combo last a good while and still look almost exactly the same through each rep.

By that definition a “loop” and an “infinite loop” are the same thing. A loop becomes an infinite when the system mechanics aren’t in place to stop it from continuing. The only thing keeping that combo from being an infinite is the IPS, so instead it’s a loop.

Don’t try to cop out with “you’re nitpicking”. You both know exactly what infinites and loops are, you two are trying to change the meaning of the words to fit your cause. “looking” the same =/= “being” the same, duct tape and glue are functionally the same

The IPS is doing exactly what it says it does.

[DevilJin_01]

Somebody close this “i know what end game gonna be 2 weeks in” shit of a thread plz? I can understand the tier thread getting closed but how is this shit even open for more than one day? Jeebus.

[Pobega]

2:12 in this video. More specifically, what Mike says at about 2:56.
[media=youtube]emXlAD0oSUg[/media]
/thread

[Jon_Slayton]

Don’t try to cop out with “you’re nitpicking”. You both know exactly what infinites and loops are, you two are trying to change the meaning of the words to fit your cause. “looking” the same =/= “being” the same, duct tape and glue are functionally the same

The IPS is doing exactly what it says it does.

Once again no one said IPS isn’t doing what it’s supposed to. But in the end you are doing a loop of the same thing over and over. A light attack followed by the same moves looped into another light attack followed by the same moves, I really don’t get how that’s not a loop. With Zero I can do different variations of the “lightning loop” with different lightning attacks, different places to put in level 3 buster, etc etc, but in the end it’s still functionally a loop, even if I used various different moves in different spots throughout the combo.

What does the beginning of the combo matter when it’s all the same afterwards?

[Mr.X]

Once again no one said IPS isn’t doing what it’s supposed to. But in the end you are doing a loop of the same thing over and over. A light attack followed by the same moves looped into another light attack followed by the same moves, I really don’t get how that’s not a loop. With Zero I can do different variations of the “lightning loop” with different lightning attacks, different places to put in level 3 buster, etc etc, but in the end it’s still functionally a loop, even if I used various different moves in different spots throughout the combo.

What does the beginning of the combo matter when it’s all the same afterwards?

ABC =/= DBC

[Kef]

Bullshit. At unmodified health and damage, I’ve yet to see a 100% combo that didn’t need a corner and ton of meter.

Post a 100% combo from 1 starting meter with unmodified health and damage if they exist and prove me wrong.

[media=youtube]Sy957jykzcA[/media]
Needs around 1.2 meters at the beginning of the combo. Can be done midscreen.

[GHNeko]

DHC’s resetting damage scaling back to 80% defeats, if not hurts, the idea of using damage and meter scaling to discourage long combos and encourage resets lol.

It also increases viability of Ratio 1 and 2 teams, while decreasing the viability of Ratio 4.

[Mr.X]

Needs around 1.2 meters at he beginning of the combo. Can be done midscreen.

It pushed Parasoul to 5 meters too, started off a jump in, spent 3 meters and isn’t it Parasoul specific?

SRK, you’re posting combo videos to say damage is too high, combos are too long again.

[Kef]

It pushed Parasoul to 5 meters too, started off a jump in and isn’t it Parasoul specific?

[media=youtube]fxkM5-R7q0g[/media]

Not character specific (timing different, same moves). The double j.:mk: at the beginning only adds around 30 points of damage to the combo (description of video). It’s pretty much what you asked for so I posted it just to help. Parasoul gaining a ton of meter for it I think is what keeps the combo from being better than resetting the opponent (they get less meter) but if you ask me, I still prefer to kill the opponent right away because I don’t feel threatened with anybody having 5 meters in this game as much as other games ([MVC2] - Cable, Storm, Sentinel, Strider [MVC2] - Dormammu, Vergil, Viper etc.)

I personally think the combos could be nerfed in general, because resets in this game are way to nasty already. Mike Z will probably make the right decision.