"I'm not Gouken..." Oni General Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
161

st.lp is +5 on hit, st.mk links from st.lp, and st.mk is 5f startup.
given the fact that all jabs have 2f active at least, its safe to say meaty jab will def link to st.hp

my combo goal is meaty f+HP > b+MP, HP > slice
or whatever ender does most damage or best position

162

I’m pointblank to my opponent, both characters are standing, no meaty involved. The guy I was about to play against, I guess didn’t want to play against a person (he’d rather play a computer which has perfect knowledge of your every button press, I suppose), so he got up and left once we started playing. I figured it was a perfect time to record the fact that st.LP FOR SURE links into st.HP.

Pretty sure st.LP also is connecting on the first active frame considering how close I was standing to my opponent.

I can’t think of any other explanation other than the fact that the frame data is wrong, because I am pretty sure that was not meaty.

163

Shun the non-believers! Shuunnnnn

[media=youtube]z0DFuJS9MM0[/media]

Still think st.HP doesn’t link?

164

Is there any possibility that’s a target combo? I mean, maybe you could be sure by cancelling into a special afterwards (preferably not SRK, since it probably can be linked).

Not to sound like an ass or anything, but the developer’s blog itself said that you couldn’t link it

165

It’s not a target combo, it would cancel into st.HP if that were the case, and it would look quicker - notice his other target combos execute pretty quickly, f+LP > MP, and b+MP > HP all come out really fast and you have to dial the buttons pretty quick, this was definitely link timing.

It does cancel into a special, but that wouldn’t prove anything since st.HP already cancels into specials.

For the record, I have done st.LP > st.HP xx Tatsu, st.LP > st.HP xx Palm Slice, and st.LP > st.HP xx Hado, but couldn’t do them in the video because nobody was there to record for me - I had to record with one hand and press buttons with the other.

166

Oh wow, that’s awesome then. Since he doesn’t have far/close versions of normals, he could probably do something like c.lk, s.lp, s.hp for some serious damage off easy and fast hit confirms.

And good point on it being cancellable lol…if that wasn’t the case, b+MP > s.HP would be pretty useless.

167

Does s.LP, s.HP work on crouching characters? That’s the issue I have with TC2, it’s like Ken’s TC and whiff’s on crouchers.

168

I believe it does hit, but I’ll have to check.

I know it whiffs from far away but I think it actually does work… I’ll let you guys know next time I have an opportunity to play AE.

169

awesome thanks. now the question is, st.lp is +6 or st.hp is 5f ?

170

i was just scannin through the japanese oni board, it seems like theyve tested a bunch of stuff, like clean hit ultra setups(mostly from ex hado fadc), frame data for moves (one dude who tested moves for their frames wrote st.lp as 3f startup(?) +6 on hit(?)), etc…

im goin out to tokyo today, ill see if i can find any strong oni and take vids or at least notes…

171

Does Ultra 2 work as an anti-air if you execute just before they land?

And does it do the full animation?

This entire time I’ve pretty much used only Ultra 1 because of it’s versatility (forward version, up version, air version? awesome), but if Ultra 2 has faster startup, which it looks like it does, I want to see if it’s viable as a punish Ultra, and if so, what it punishes.

172

ive seen people punished bad jump ins with u2 for full animation, but then, yeah, bad jumpins…

btw i went to 3 arcades for a total of 6hours and no oni lolol

173

:coffee:

Telling yall he’s gonna be asslike…

174

no one cares, man. this isn’t a debate on tiers

175

I have no doubt in my mind that he’s not going to be a very good character in the conventional sense. Oni’s not for everybody, and it’s going to take a while for people to figure that out.

But I think that’s the point - he’s an unconventional character, which is what makes him interesting, and also gives him the potential to win matches.

176

Also, regarding the st.LP > st.HP link, even if you’re inconsistent with it, it makes a good frame trap lol.

Has anyone noticed that FADCing is weird for Oni? Like there’s a longer period of time you have to wait before he can dash out of his Focus Attack?

A lot of times when I try to FADC moves with Oni I KNOW I’ve done the proper dash input, but the dash never comes out. I don’t think this is a hardware issue as I play on the same cabs with other characters and FADC just fine.

177

Mixup setup?

I don’t know if this is viable as I don’t know if Oni travels fast enough. I was just thinking about it.

Would it be possible to do the three-hit HP fireball, FADC forward and then use HK or EX Palm Slice to cross to the other side before it hits? Like some stupid Sentinel Assist crossup shenanigans?

The most ideal scenarios I can envision would be:

  • EX Palm Slice hits before the fireball hits, so since your opponent was holding downback they get hit by EX Palm Slice (dunno if the fireball would juggle), and you can maybe follow up with something else
  • They block EX Palm Slice but try to block the fireball the wrong way (by holding away from the fireball, instead of away from you), and get hit by the fireball, leaving you open to maybe juggle them
  • They try to block EX Palm Slice but end up getting hit by the fireball first - maybe EX Palm Slice would juggle? No idea.

Just brainstorming here.

178

i think FBs go too far too fast. the 3hit would just leave them in blockstun and they probably wouldn’t even have to guard crossup depending on blockstun. it would just autoguard. pure speculation tho

179

Thanks hfz for trying some of that stuff out!

There is some other stuff I am curious about:

  • If you anti-air with a normal and cancel into HK or EX Palm Slice, does your opponent land in time to get crossed up by the move or do you whiff it? If it whiffs, is there a timing perhaps that can make it viable?

  • MK and HK Tatsu can be FADC’ed after the first hit (this is the case with Akuma’s Tatsu as well, but I never saw a use for it with Akuma). I know that I was able to do st.HP xx MK Tatsu FADC HP Shoryu and it combos. What I’m curious about now is something similar to the previous question: if you FADC out of MK Tatsu and reset with a normal (jab or cr.MP seem logical) can you dash under while they’re getting air-reset, or can you cancel into a crossup Palm Slice?

180

oh snap i might be late but i just found out that HK slash is considered airborne from the 1st frame(aka cant be thrown)…

went to check out the japanese forums and i found(keep in mind that they are not 100% true, havent tested them myself yet):

safe jump setups

  • front throw -> dash -> b.mp -> front jump = 4f safe jump (near corner)
  • front throw -> lk slash -> front jump = able to block any reversals, but can get thrown(i assume command throws here)

after mk ground pound, walk back a little and you can jump and two options — normal jump attacks(non cross up) or lk tatsumaki(crossup)

then theres something about mk tatsumaki does more damage when trade hits. and mk tatsumaki fadc lvl2 being good/or at least potential to be good…

edit: apparently all of those are based on whats written on the latest arcadia magazine, which im goin to go and check out the nearest bookshop for in a bit.

edit: bought the magazine, will try to compile whatever i can when i have the time/tested the stuff myself