Can anyone confirm if Palm Slice is HCF, like actually, visually confirm in the Command List for Oni in the game? The SRK Wiki shows it to be QCF but I am 99% positive that’s not correct. I would check myself but I’m at work.
Wilcat (Hakan player during super) is playing Oni apparently. Gamertag is Wildcat815 if you want to follow him and even if you don’t check his currently only replay avaiable (against a Sagat) the way he plays the character is unique to anyone I’ve seen before.
It’s half circle forward
i dont know if they fixed it but the srk wiki shows it as HCF to me. And I’m sure its hcf.
Oni stole one of Seth’s win quotes.
Seth: "I am ruler of all I survey"
Oni: “Oni rules all he surveys”
What do you guys think of Oni’s sweep (c.hk) for footsies? I haven’t even seen it mentioned on this board. It doesn’t seem like you can combo into it, but it doesn’t seem THAT slow. Thoughts?
I use it. It’s good. Just a shame you can’t Combo into it. even off a CH
from what i know on block youre gonna be at a serious frame disadvantage. but according to wao’s blog, he said that you can use the sweep to catch backdash, and if i have to guess, i think he meant OS sweep, throwing it out just like that is pretty risky.
anyone else remember the shitstorm when they revealed dudley? His intro quote is “well then, lets begin”, which is the exact same as Abels. People were legitimately bothered by this.
i did some translation stuff, might have some inaccuracies, and i include my thoughts in brackets.
wao’s notes on oni (part 8)
- footsies
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his walk back speed is top class. combined that with his f.hp existence, its going to be hard to get close to him by ground.
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fight while being aware of the round time and the space behind him. (he basically says that he probably need to learn to fight like that, since he kinda prefers to attack more but he thinks that if he doesnt learn that kinda style, wont go far with oni… basically turtling/zoning/irritating the opponent)
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tools in footsies (based on reach)
f.hp > f.mk > c.hk > s.lk, st.mk, st.hk, cr.mk
applying the above, also mix it up with b.mp, fireball, surprise dash or jump forward, and hk ground pound. although there’s no need to rush/force your way in, you can also neutral jump or just walk back/jump back. when your opponent is coming at you, thats when you start your offense(he didnt say this exactly but thats how i understood it)
- after a blocked lk demon slash
- against characters where youre at a disadvantage(in footsies and such), characters with not so damaging combos (maybe when they have no meter) etc… go with ex SRK (im not trolling)… once you get that in your opponent’s mind, they are going to be alert of that option, thats when you can follow up with either a throw or ground pound. and if your opp starts to focus backdash, if you expect it maybe you can punish with clean hit U2.
the point is, so that your opponent wont feel like “oh after i blocked that move, its safe for me to do this”(basically mindgames), thats why you include shoryu as part of the mix(not just the first time). sure, on whiff it seems like its a big risk, but on the long run, it will pay off.
- ex fireball
- depends on your opp playstyle… (and then im not sure what he means, but nothing important i guess lol).
- OSes
- b.mp and st.mk (i think he meant when he uses b.mp or st.mk, he’ll buffer moves, like maybe b.mp xx lk slash, st.mk xx fb etc)
- light attacks cancels into lk slash
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lk slash probably has around 17-19F of startup, so cancelling from light moves with about 10F block stun will create a 7-9F gap, can be used to get counter hit against delayed throw tech or backdash(air hit)
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unfortunately lk slash has only 2f of active frames, so it might not hit some characters backdashes. against those characters, this setup might be impractical. i guess ill wait for the more accurate data in the mook that will come out end of this month.
- ground pounds
- (not sure 100% what he wrote but something about he’s not using it upon waking up/reversal, something about not mashing this move, and only do it when he feels like its going to work)
- st.mk xx hk slash/ex slash
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st.mk xx hk clash can cross over pretty quickly
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since the whole thing is pretty fast, maybe ex slash can be practical too?
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though maybe its easier to counter the ex slash (since it flashes yellow and all), you can mix it up with st.mk fadc, or st.mk xx ex ground pound.
I’m calling it right now, Oni will be lower than Dan on the tier list. He will be the lowest so-called “shoto”. He is far and away the worst of the new four, and I don’t think that he has much going for him at all. I don’t think he can rush down at all, I’ve tried as many TK air dash set-ups as I can think of and they are all easily blocked. I’ve tried other air dash mix-ups and then really allow for way too much time to block, it isn’t difficult at all to avoid them. Also, most set-ups are kinda hard to perform when the opponent refuses to quick rise. All this is fine because I knew he was a fireball/zoning character, but he’s got some real hang ups in this department too. Forward throw and F+RH send the opponent full screen. Normally with a fireball character this would be a perfect position, but not for Oni. Since most characters have a way around fireballs, there is really no feasible way to pressure them legitimately since any fireball that goes full-screen requires a bit of charge. Mid-screen he is probably at his best, but this allows for a huge risk of people getting in, it isn’t as safe as keeping them further, but it is where his normals shine the most. If someone gets in he has no safe way of getting them off of him since he can’t FADC his DP on block. His so-called “sweet spot” is nearly impossible to maintain because his gdlk normals get beat if you aren’t using the proper move for the proper situation. I think his normals are really sweet, but they are easily beaten at certain ranges and you really have to be on top of your game. This isn’t a problem, I’m not one to complain about the shitty situations when you get into them, but most characters have a legitimate way of getting you into their “sweet spot” range. Oni doesn’t, unless you take a huge risk with an unsafe DP. I think that Oni has some really sick footsies, and has a good mid-screen zoning game through these awesome normals and decent fireballs, but because he can’t ever reset the situation without taking a huge risk he’s constantly at a disadvantage. One wrong move and you’re fucked. I know this could be said for someone like Dhalsim, but he has consistently dominant options at most ranges whereas Oni is kinda stuck at one. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve won a fair ammount using Oni since the game has come out, but I don’t think he is a viable character at all. I’m trying to use EX-slash as little as possible because I know that it will be easy enough to block/stuff after about two weeks. I have heard people are having meter problems with him, but it’s the opposite with me… What are people using their meter on?
Please let me know if I’m missing something. I’m maining Oni regardless. Not because I like the character or anything (quite the opposite, I think his character design is retarded: Goku+Shoto). I’m just playing him because I feel that he’ll be underrepresented and he’s pretty unique in the SF4 world. He just seems like a character that Capcom finished animating and were so happy with the flashiness that they decided that none of his moves should compliment one another. Seriously this is a character that Is a Jack of all trades/Master of none, except he doesn’t have anything outside of four good normals to make him worthwhile. His throw works against him, his F+RH does the same, his fireball is counteractive and his other moves are confusing for his intended playstyle. Someone please correct me, I feel like I’ve looked over the character enough, but I can find little redeeming to him. I want him to be good, someone prove me wrong.
I’m not an expert by any means, but I kinda agree with you zakky. Oni’s mixups all seem to be gimmicky and easily defended if you know the matchup. However, he has some really good normals and some legit shoto hit confirms. He isn’t worse than Dan.
Also he has sooo many troubles getting in. I suck but I seriously have troubles beating fireball spam. I was going to main Oni, but I might have to switch back to Seth. I really miss srk FADC on block.
From what I’ve experienced, experimented with, and watched, I don’t think he’ll be worse than Dan (Who, for the record, I don’t believe is the worst character in the game).
From the fundamentals side, his normals aren’t just good…they’re pretty amazing for a shoto in pretty much every aspect. Footsies-wise, he has everything you’d want…good AA, great whiff punisher, poking normals, and fireballs. His backwards walkspeed also is pretty great. It’s insane what options he has. Yes, he doesn’t have a direct move to get around fireballs, but he has full-charge fireball and MP electric ball to allow him to inch his way into his optimal range.
Also, Oni’s damage, both life and stun-wise, are really sick, and aren’t really much difficulty to attain. A lot of his links are VERY easy. My execution is bad…I can consistently do Oni’s combos no problem. Also, he can end some combos with ground pound for untechable knockdowns. His slash mixups are pretty solid as well, and ground pound does have uses when it comes to blowing up crouch techs.
The weakest thing about Oni, tbh, is his wakeup options. His backdash isn’t too great, and the inability to FADC his DP on block sucks ass. But tbh, he’s better off than a HUGE portion of the cast anyway, simply because he has a DP. It’s 3f, does pretty solid damage on full connect, and it isn’t bad on invincibility. A DP without FADC is better than no DP at all.
Honestly. The biggest problem I have with oni is No FADC DP on block. and thats not a big problem since im used to characters with shit wakeup like that.
His air dashes are a gimmick. Rarely use them imho. Try and bait something once ina while, but don’t focus on trying some crazy air dash set ups that can only be canceled with a tatsu.
But he sure is fun!
I’m seeing a lot of feeds where Oni’s srk hits one, two, even three times on block. But it’s still not possible to FADC it? I haven’t been to the arcade for days, so I haven’t been able to check this. (I never tried it before b/c I rarely SRK–a vestige of maining Chun Li and Makoto in Vanilla and Super, respectively.)
It was known before AE hit consoles that Oni can’t FADC his dp.
I cant seem to understand people who post shit like “im callin it right now… bla bla bla”, what are you trying to prove actually? that you have godlike prediction skills? combined with the wall of text that really can be summarized as “QQ”. After shitting on the character, you wanna act all noble like no matter how low tier he is, you’ll still main him, represent, uniqueness bla bla bla. Stop acting like youve mastered the character, and there’s no more room for improvement.
boo hoo too bad Oni aint OP like Yun/Yang/Fei long… play him if you want, actually get good with him, dont waste time crying about how your character sucks (and waste others time for reading that wall of text with little to no useful info).
“I feel like I’ve looked over the character enough, but I can find little redeeming to him.”
…and youve played the game for how long? Even japanese players (like wao) is still experimenting/learning stuff to try and improve his oni gameplay, and youre gonna say that you’ve looked over enough?
Exactly. Coming from Gouken, I’m like “YES DP!” I honestly never cared I couldn’t FADC it LOL. At least I don’t have to guess EXACTLY what attack the opponent is gonna use. And at the same time, I still have my move that punishes tech traps as well as a reliable AA.
Be honest oni seems like a slightly better gouken to me. He’s mainly a zoner/punisher but at least his jabs mean something.
Most of his game seems to be based around f+HP and trying to get them to try and counter it and punishing them for trying to get around it. In that way his fireball forces you to play at his most capable range. Thing to note all fireballs last the same amount of time so fierce fireball travels slightly farther than LP and MP.
Things to note:
-Most meter should probably be used to FADC fireball into combo’s. Shit like cr. MK->Fireball->FADC->cr. FP->Fierce SRK deals like 330. His fireball is pretty solid at combo’ing if you make sure to not charge it. It’s also probably worth learning to do EX fireballxxFADCxxU2 as deals a crap load. 75% meter but it’s way more damage than you’d get off the super. Think it’s like 515 or something. Oddly oni doesn’t seem capable of extremely high damage (like 600+) but a lot of stuff leads to 200-500 range.
-His kara-throw is pretty good and he actually has a decently solid wake-up game. Not great but there are characters with much worse.
-Forget about using his air dashes and seldomly if ever use his crossup stuff. It’s all mediocre. However, his footsie game is really solid. Really I doubt he’ll have terribly hard time playing footsies with anyone except fei.
-When you end most combo’s that have a target chain in them probably want to use LK misogi thing gives untech knockdown and you can setup a pretty ambiguous crossup or safejump afterwards.
-Oni is better than gouken so he won’t be worse than dan that’s for sure.
I’m mainly highlighting his good points but I agree he’s the worst of the four considering 2 of them are broke tier and the other is only marginally better. I see his main problem being he can’t bully people with his SRK and for some reason when his SRK is used as anti-air you don’t get the shinsho type animation making the uppercut deal about half of what it does vs grounded opponents.
why use lk misogi when mk deals more damage? mk set up a hard knockdown too and keeps oni at a good distance for wake up offense.
as for shoryuken animation, depends really, you can still get more than one hit, even full hit if you time your shoryu late enough (from crouching: df, d, df), if your opponent does a bad jump which you can tag with lp shoryu, you can follow up with hk tatsumaki etc(maybe ex fb, not sure)