I'm hotter than you!: Poison Match-up thread * Open for Discussion* (Updated: 8/28/2014)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
281

id like to add to the geif match up that LMT is abusable until he has u1. his fastest command throw is 2 frames, and we are -1 at worst. if he blocks an lmt and we backdash, his only option is ex green hand without u1. if he goes for an spd or a lariet it whiffs, and we can come back with another lmt to whiff punish. if he starts doing ex green hands, mix in a throw, it would beat out his lariat too. oh and then when u ex lmt, that can bait out the ultra.

you play a risky rock paper scissor game when you do that, but its in our favor.

282

can’t he Lp Green Hand the backdash ? I think his MP or HP green hand might punish as well. Even on hit the position wouldn’t be that bad for him since he would be in. I am always afraid of using LMT vs Gief because of lariat though. I don’t think it would be hard for a gief user to stuff or beat it with literally a button press.

283

i did some testing right now. and his mp and hp can punish it, while the lp is hit or miss depending on spacing and how early/late he does it.

giefs that i have played have always gone to spd or lariet, which backdashing will whiff entirely, at any spacing that you hit him on with the blocked lmt, the lariet and spd whiff, allowing poison to get a free punish. mp and hp green hands will catch her in the back dash and knock her down, but it is ultimetly a high risk because poison can dp and beat all geifs options aside from blocking, or if we block, on hit or whiff hes -6/-7 and on ex hes -9 on block. while lp green hand is inconsistant at times and -7 on block. and if we jab after lmt on block, lariets can whiff and then get jabbed, regular green hands get beat and counter hit.

again its a rock paper scissor game with high reward and risk, but we are playing it with the advantage.

284

Hey there, I’ve been having a lot of trouble with Guy lately. Do you guys have any advice on this match up?

In particular when canceling normals (usually cr mk or mp) into AE my opponent likes to slide, often times I get sweeped and then he gets hit, but he is at enough advantage to mess with me on my wake up. I usually cancel into mp or hp AE since I lose pretty much all pressure with the light version. Ex spin kick also blows up a lot of her meaty pressure in addition to catching her back dash.

His shoulder tackle is problematic too. It goes through her fireballs and is practically safe on block. He doesn’t really lose any pressure on block either since any normal she throws out after a blocked shoulder tackle gets beaten by his st mp (into target combo) or his st mk .

His jump is very floaty but he can easily change its trajectory with the elbow drop making him hard to anti-air. Overall I just get rushed down like crazy, I can’t find a way to keep him out and zoning him via fbs is no good since he has many ways around them. :frowning:

285

I put this together when the game came out. Ever wonder who ex whip of love to ultra 1 whiffs on? Just so when it dosent land on someone you don’t wonder why. I put it in this thread because I think it’s more match up than tech.

Thank you.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EZz_qGIiFIc

286

its really that abusable? Awesome :smiley: Oh btw if any of you can update the hugo match up. LMT can stuff back breaker unless its ex.

287

I think the question remains why would Zangief block the LMT in the first place when it is easy for him to beat it by a single button press. I think LMT is easily reactable with lariat. The only application i can see to this is after throwing a HP AE on him then doing LMT. I guess that LMT would have it uses in this matchup but i wouldn’t say it is abuse able.

288

I was just about to post that btw. lol

289
  • Keep Safe space and Mixup MP AE and HP AE.
  • He jumps in on your LVL2 focus or you have several different option for his approach.
    (S.RH, J.Strong, S.Strong and etc.)

Ultimately he has to come to you if you’re making you mixups obvious he will just do whatever he wants. Go into practice mode and practice against the range that sweep will hit and getting yourself used to punish his floaty jump. It’s a pain I know but you’re going to have this problem with Elena and Guy. I think you’re also probably punishing Hozanto too slow. Remember Poison has a 3 frame Cr.Jab.

290

You just answered your own question. Once you get in with it, you start that abuse. He blocks a meaty hp ae and you have committed to it right after you has thrown it and he’s forced to block. You make a read on a green hand, it beats it outright. And even if he is trying to look for it and lariat it, spaced right it (aimed to land on Geifs head) lmt beats lariat too.

How about on your wake up? This match up has you zoning him out and he’s pushing forward and using green hands to get in. If he say spd you midscreen and wants to go for a whiff green hand mix up where he either spd or jab os green hand, wake up ex lmt blows up the green hand and the spd.

If you guys have not tried this, don’t dismiss it right away. It is very advantageous for us.

Also using lk lmt in a midrange is a good poke in the neutral if the opponent has long range moves. Since its not aimed at the opponent it’s aimed at catching your opponent it’s pretty safe too if they don’t do anything.

Catching slides (Elena, rolento, guy, ibuki, sim, Cody, rose, blanka. Just to throw out examples, it works better against some then others just due to how the match up plays)

Catching far low pokes (shoto cr. Mk, especially e.ryus, Sims low stretchy arms, sweeps)

Catching far forward moving pokes (Kens step kick, onis step kick and f.hp. Cody ex ruffian, geifs green hands. Rolento rolls, cammy spiral arrow and spin knuckle)

It doesn’t hurt to throw out the lk lmt to catch whiffing moves. The hit box is huge, it’s airborne and doesn’t lose to lows or mids, and if blocked is only -1 at worst. Unless your opponent is dead on looking to whiff punish lmts, it’s not bad to throw it out. Mix it up obviously, recognize if they want to stay back and whiff punish then start zoning and put em in a corner. Get them frustrated and jumping and AA them. Get them frustrated and recklessly coming forward and start mixing up the lmt again. I wish my x box had the YouTube feature working. I would upload my matches to show you guys.

edit: so i did some testing on the meaty hp ae, instant hk lmt, after a forward throw. its a true block string to get in and start the lmt pressure like you suggested, but if he wakes up lariet he beats the lmt in its start up because the fireball whiffs. if a gief figures this out, don’t throw the hp ae to be meaty, throw it instantly after the forward throw, and instantly hk lmt. this timing allows the LMT to be meaty on giefs wake up while the hp ae whiffs before geif rises. if he lariets on wake up, you get a CH lmt. if he green hands, same thing. he is forced to block or back dash, but the back dash is risky because, if we do meaty hp ae, he gets cought in the backdash and the lmt combos.

291

I think doing LMT is too risky…he can react and even if it trades with lariat he can tack on the extra damage with green hand. Then he gets his own mix up right after.

292

Sim cannot slide under LK LMT if it is cancelled off of a move. So once you have a slide pattern you can cancel C.MK, or CR.FP based on spacing into LK LMT. If he slides you will hit him during the slide or on its recovery frames. Always make sure you activate the second hit for the hard knockdown.

My problem with this MU is that he can make Poison play his game so easily compared to other characters its absurdly frustrating.

293

Question. How do you guys deal with Ken? He’s the only person Ive been losing to consistently since USF4 came out. It’s like he has an answer for everything she does unless he does something completely stupid. He’s dp’d me through her WoL blockstring and corner pressure. His AA cancel mine out 100%. I cant mix up her backflip because he reaches her regardless with cr.Hk at the end. Trying to play safe or getting into a fireball war with him sucks because it just drags on the match to a timeout, or he usually jumps in but her cr.HP is a 50/50 alot of the time and they hit each other at the same time.

294

I have read in a forum back when SF4 first came out that a person used him because he had a combo breaker (FAQ forums i think).I don’t know how i am still remembering this post but it was hilarious.

The hardest part about Ken is anti-airing him because of the trajectories on his air tatsus and his general shotos jumping attacks. Your best bet is to try to get into fireball war with him and mixing up yours between AE versions. I don’t get the bolded part, Do you mean he DP’ed in between the rekkas on block ? I don’t think you should continue with the rekkas if the 1st hit got blocked and even that is -4 so you could get punished depending on the spacing.

You may need to try to jump air to air with him if you are not confident AA from the ground. J.Mp and J.HK seems to work well. You can use cr.MP to counter poke his F.Mk. The one thing you should be careful with however is when do you time your HP AE after a knockdown because i have gotten hit by his U2 on wakeup after throwing a meaty ( I pretty sure i messed up that one but be careful).

295

You can treat him like most of the other Shotos for the most part. Except, that he is more prone to try and rush you down and get in your face and like said above mixing up MP/HP AE’s is your best option for this and putting yourself into a situation where you can properly anti air him.

As for getting DP’ed through WOL blockstun it’s probabaly because of the strength you’re doing and you probably aren’t stringing the commands together tight enough.
Abel has the same problem with his COD’s.

Use C.mk and Cr.MP alot against Ken especially in sweep distance.

296

Cool thanks guys.

297

Canceling a medium normal into WoL is not a true block string. It’s also punished by Kens mk at any range. Here’s a tip, start the round with a hp AE, if he jumps he gets hit by it and u can combo that into cr.hpxx hp AE to follow up the pressure after he air resets. If he fireballs it cancels out but we recover first. If he step kicks he has to take a step in first then do it, and he has to be quick to do it to catch her in start up. If he back dashes he gives you room to zone and chip and build meter. Ken doesn’t build much meter in a fireball war.

Anti airing him isn’t that bad, j.mp and j.hk are great air to air against him. And as long as he isn’t jumping to land a j.hk at the tip, his j.hk isn’t as beefy as ryu, cr.hp works well. Just get under him as he jumps or challenge him in the air. His ex air tatsu is the only concern, don’t air to air that or try and cr.hp it, you will lose, you must block it. Most Kens will set up ex air tatsu to cross up at Un reachable cross up ranges without ex air tatsu, and link into sweep. If you feel an ex air tatsu coming, block cross up, it’s better odds then blocking normal. If Ken throws you and corpse hops with lk tatsu, he’s going for a n.j.hk tatsu that he can control to cross up or not. Regular one isn’t over head, just crouch and let it whiff and throw. If Ken cancels his cr.mk into a hado, it’s never a block string, you can focus through and throw punish which is a tight 1 frame punish, or just hit focus to absorb and hit level 1 into back dash.

If he step kicks, it’s -2 on block and if he’s dumb he’s going to cr.mk right after. Since poisons normals are meh in start up, cr.mp or cr.mk from poison will lose or trade. St.mk will win every time only unless he takes a risk and dp’s. Which he might if he has 2 bars and ultra 1. It’s a common CH set up for Kens u1. Blocking Kens dp fadc is -5 first hit and -7 on second hit, easily punishable. His sweep is -8 on block. Don’t be shy and delay your wake up. Do meaty hp fireballs to beat reversal dp’s and punish hard. Throwing out some lmts ain’t bad either, they beat his 4 frame cr.mk and his step kick.

298

any tips on how to deal with the bison match-up?? i just lost to a bison and I was going to read about the match but i do not see it anywhere

299

J.mp and j.hk work well as air to air against his jump ins and head stomps. His devil reverse is focusable. He is -1 after a blocked lk scissor, your best buttons after it are crouching jab or crouching mp buffered with either mp/hp/ex fireball. If you are good with spacing and reading his movements, throwing out a lmt so that he scissors or slides or dashes into is good. Always use the follow up slam because it gives you a hard knockdown and if you do an immediate hp fireball after it you recover right as it hits him getting up allowing you to combo on it on hit or pressure on block, if he does a reversal like ex psycho crusher or ex scissor kick, you can block it and punish. Use ex lmt in block strings to catch them pressing buttons or if blocked you are +2 so pressing a normal like cr.jab or close mk will counter hit their crouch tech. Or grab will catch them blocking. Don’t get cornered and don’t panic in the corner

300

If you ever get stuck in the corner just chill out for a bit and think. Goes for any character and keeps you from dying unless its a grappler.