If you were a top player in the FGC

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
101

I’ll bite…

Organization… building a community… discipline… communication
^ yes, sounds a bit military like, but it works. Since I moved back to Texas from Cali, I have helped the scene in my hometown level up in their game 10 times as fast within a week. Through forcing tourney, after tourney, after tourney… okay, more like encouraging, but many of the players saw how much their skills have improved and each session there are more people, longer hours, and a lot of learning going on.

Starting some sort of thread/site/blog or whatever for your community will help improve all what you’re trying to do.

Take a look at what I started and feel free to use this as a template.

News, Names, Phone Numbers, Dates of sessions, Ranbat info, etc…

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=219478

102

I like your style good sir.

Only if organizing a nationwide standard for training regimens would be easier =)

Keep up the good work man!

103

You missed my point completely and put words in my mouth. I’ll try to break it down…

As a novice SF player, you have a wealth of information to learn and experience to gain. Valle can provide all of what you want, but the lessons he can provide exclusively, the lessons you can’t learn from players below him, are beyond most of our comprehension right now, especially someone getting banned from SHGL’s. The stuff that is most important for you to learn, you can learn from players that are weaker than Valle, so its not worth his time to teach you something you can learn from someone less in demand.

So when he dismisses you, he’s saying you’ve got a lot to learn from comp more at your level before you’ll get the most out of playing him. If you wanted to learn basic physics, would you go straight to Stephen Hawking?

104

Are people really asking what Valle has done in SF? Let alone SF4? Jesus.

One of the more interesting things I’ve noticed when watching ‘top players’ play is how they practice.

Sometimes instead of playing just over and over with no real goal - they’ll say something like: Lets do first to 3 with these characters, then switch or whatever. Instead of just playing, it’s organized playing. This helps out a lot.

The other thing is how they practice in training mode. They aren’t just working on a combo, they are working on the combo vs all the char types, setups for the combo, distances for cross up after the combo, etc. I would pay $ to watch a stream of Buktooth or Maj in training mode, no joke.

Last thing is that a lot of people treat fighting games as 1 player games - they forget they are playing against someone else. A lot of the top players can win in tons of games, simply because they know how to win - not because they are the best at every single game. A lot of people just hit buttons and don’t have a real strategy for winning aside from ‘do more damage than the other guy does to me’.

I know these are observations but if there is anyway to help people learn some of this stuff, it would go a long way.

Also I always learn a ton when going out to eat with everyone and just talking. I sometimes learn more this way than actually playing versus them.

Derek Daniels

105

in response to the point of this thread - putting more knowledge out there, more tournaments and events on local/regional basis, and more welcoming attitude to new players.

i’d love to see the SRK wiki’s getting finished properly, the ST one used to be a nice source of good info for me. if these could be combined with clips or youtube links, that would be even better for visual explanations. this website is great for showing all different matchups in ST. all these vids are already up on youtube, but having an index like this is really useful

agree with the people who said: more retrospective commentaries that breakdown and analyse matches in detail. more strategy and mind-set focused podcasts. more matches up on youtube. more youtube tutorials demonstrating how certain techniques are executed. promoting and nurturing local/regional scenes through events and tournaments

better attitude and being more welcoming to new players. don’t think SRK has any problems in this department :wink:

alex: i think this thread was a great idea and statement of intent, and i have a lot of respect for you for giving up your own time to help others. i don’t really know much of anything about these training events (i’m in the UK and don’t play SF4, etc), but from reading some of the comments here, it sounds like your intentions are more than to simply help the SF community grow in size, but to take the existing player-base and help them reach the next level. but you seem to also concede that being a great player doesn’t make you a great teacher. maybe you can learn to adapt your teaching technique to what the student will best respond to. but still, much respect man. why do you think 2009 was the year you gave most back into the community? i don’t imagine most pro’s who’ve been around as long as yourself would really care, if i’m being honest

for me, i’ve been getting fed up with online play lately. thinking there was no local scene for a 100 mile radius, i’ve decided to set up my own SF gatherings, purchased some extra arcade gear (extra sticks and cps2 boards), put up some of my own cash for prize money, and things are looking like they’re picking up round here :bgrin:

106

Strategy tips

I’d like to see more strategy tips from the top players.

107

pretty hilarious. then again what do you really expect from all these random nobodies questioning valles “sf4 skill”.

108

No, hold on here, James Chen did try to convince me to play the match, but you didn’t say shit to me. Don’t try to take credit for something you didn’t do.

109

K, a lot of whining derailed this thread for a page or two. Valle doesn’t need to ‘be nice’ to anybody. He’s been exactly what he should be. Stuck to his regimen which he deams is even ground. You get better from there or fail. For all the criticism, I don’t think Valle’s been more fair or accessable in his history in the FGC.

Those claiming, ‘you asked what would help the community but aren’t listening,’ it’s because the begging for a nicer, gentle approach DON’T make it better. In my experience, years after graduating college the professor I remember most for making the best students is the one who made kids WORK. Otherwise, she’d just tell you to stop showing up, because you’d failed already. If you passed with flying colors, you knew you fuckin earned it.

How to up the FGC? Continue that regimen. Cause it grows more and more apparent who really wants to improve and those produce results. It’s been working. It’s the players that need to start working.

110

I haven’t been reading this thread, so I dunno what he’s been nice or mean about. but I have to say, those are completely different circumstances. as far as society goes, I think Valle can be as huge a dick as he wants to be to anyone for any reason but I don’t think being a dick is a requirement for being a teacher by any standards.

honestly though, coaches and shit have always annoyed the fuck out of me, with their “trying to motivate me” and shit. I could do fine on my own, I didn’t need anyone motivating me. and them being a dick to me just annoyed the hell out of me and made me wanna stop.

btw, the teachers that make their students work? there’s a difference between working and being a good teacher. making your students do shit doesn’t mean you’re a good teacher

edit: brb, gonna try to find an example of a good teacher who just happens to be a dick

[media=youtube]3rSOIQSqi4M&feature=player_embedded[/media]

that guy. he’s unmercifully knocking the shit outta those students. why? to force them to learn how to defend themselves… to show them that it’s not easy… to force them to deal with whatever fears of fighting they have RIGHT NOW (ex. lots of ppl fear getting hit. getting hit is the best way to clear up that fear). they’re not having a fucking tea party; they’re fighting. so to show them the seriousness of it, he’s hitting them like that and yelling at them. (edit: as a side bonus, it motivates you to get good enough to one day just jaw the shit outta him)

But that isn’t NECESSARY. That’s just ONE tactic out of many. not to say Valle can’t do what he want, I’m just saying just cause one way works doesn’t mean it’s “the only way”.

111

Although I understand the merit of a good players cab and a scrub cab, I really like how most arcades in my part of the world use linked cabs. If you come to the arcade, you have to be prepared to play the best and the worst. If you’re getting scrapped by the best, you better be asking yourself the right questions after the match. There is no scrub cab to go hide on.

To quote the fictional but still awesome Dr. House: “Be good, get good, or give up.”

112

Aside from Marvel esque commentary i think the guys at FADC.com do a great job commenting on the fights along with the colorful commentators Chris Hu and IFC yipes. And of course you can never count Gootecks out for giving great insight on fights…

113

act like you’re better than everyone else and don’t share strategies

o wait…

to elaborate on this, i wish people didn’t think they could talk down to a person because of their skills in a video game.

and i wish people didn’t treat some people better than others SOLELY because of their skills in a video game.

we are all people, and we are all in this tiny niche of tournament fighting game players, treat people the way you want to be treated.

114

this one post says so much… seriously

115

You just have to decide what is more important to you. I LOVE street fighter. However, I love guitar more, and it is my job. So I put more time into guitar than street fighter. However, playing and teaching guitar professionally has taught me how to get the most out of my practice time, so even though I have less time to practice street fighter, I’ve learned how to get the most out of that time. Focus and concentration is where its at.

116

Tournaments

I might be going slightly off topic here so apologies.

I don’t play in tourney’s so this may not even be worth talking about. I do the marketing for an apparel company. We not only sponsor sporting events, athletes and music events, but we also put them on attracting other sponsors (though not competitors) that wantto advertise to our demo. Why? Because we want everyone to see our stuff and see that we are part of the community.

Truth be told any pro that asks for stuff from will get it. We may not sponsor him and he may not wear our logo but there is a good chance someone will see him in our product and be influenced by it. Same goes for celebrities.

Anyway here is what I would do to get more people interested in tournaments. These are things we currently do in our tournaments and have been successful. Larger payouts and payouts to the top 10 guys. Serious Money brings serious competitors. You get this by higher entry fees. I don’t know what the entry fees are right now but I’m sure the price could be raised. People may balk at the increase but the possibility of winning more money should offset that…

We regularly get people who are sponsored by someone else with money with the agreement that if they win, they split the proceeds. Our tournaments are limited to 200 people $500 to enter with the ability to enter twice. 1st Prize $20,000 2nd $11,000 3rd $ 9,000 … … … … … 10th $1,000

Then we have bonus money for fastest time or most rounds won consecutively etc… At the end after everything’s been paid including to the arena and advertising etc there is about 5K left over.

Since we do an open invitational, it’s available to professionals and amateurs alike. We entice the amateurs to come, by doing handicaps. It evens everything up and allows the amateurs to feel like they have a chance at winning and the pros an excuse why they didn’t. Either way by the end to win you have to be good. The one’s who start with handicaps and progress of course lose those handicaps after each tournament. That means there is a governing body that oversees membership and people have to belong too it and in order to get a handicap have to show their card…

Actually I wonder how hard it would be for Capcom to implement a handicap system tied to your gamertag…

Sponsors… We have them…lots…because they want to sell things to the demo when I get proposals from events that want us to sponsor them. I look at the demo, and the ROI (Return on Investment). Is this our demo? Are they aware of our product? Will they be influenced to buy it after being exposed to it at the event? It’s as much the event organizer’s responsibility to convince me that I will get something out of it as it is my responsibility to research it and find if this is something we should do…

Sometimes it boils down to a gut feeling. Does this demo spend money on our product? We get requests from NASCAR all the time to become a sponsor and we pass every time b/c the demo is not right for us. They meet all our requirements save one $$$

To me the software publishers can’t really get a concrete Return on Investment. They already have their money, so they would sponsor to show support for the community and thats it. If they were to move to some sort of subscription based model I can see them becoming more active in tournament settings.

Sponsors that can see a ROI would be peripheral manufactures, gaming magazines, gaming sites, consumables like red bull, Mt. Dew and others. Actually you guys should try to get Red Bull to sponsor. They’ll sponsor almost anything. I worked with a guy who worked for them at one time. Their deal is to create and film an event and then sell it… Since they created the race/event they control everything the audience sees as far as advertising goes…

Thank your sponsors! Take pictures of their banners that you put up. If the sponsors are fans of the game get them to meet the top tier players…

Commentators: They need to be better. Cursing, smack talk, that may all be part of the scene but sponsors rarely want any part of that. We actually sponsor a commentator and he drops our name into his commentary all the time whether the athlete wears our stuff or not… The most important thing the commentator does is explain expert things in layman’s terms to the audience who may or may not be aware of what is going on. At our events, maybe 50% are causal attendees who may not know everything that is going on. Having the commentator explain things not only makes it interesting for those casual members but possibly gets them involved in the scene.

I haven’t watched a lot of matches or commentary but what I have seen leaves a lot to be desired. Listen to commentary on major sports with your eyes closed. You can picture the game in your mind. Now do the same with SF4…Is the commentary working?

Obviously they need to know matchups, but they also need to talk about what happened, what is happening and what might happen. The hard part is games are fast. I think a lot of analysis and color can be added in post and replays of the match slowed down, with the commentator explaining what is going talk about 1 frame links EX Moves vs Normals, ultra setups, etc.Anyway it’s 2 am and I’m tired. I might revisit this thread and post some more “thoughts…” I’ll just say that the Koreans figured out a way to turn Starcraft into a viable sport… What can we learn from them?

117

I was there. First Valle tried to talk to you into playing the ban match and then i did. I remember.

118

man, too much crying in this thread now. when i was a kid i had no one to look up to other than college students playing alpha 2. i had to learn the basics quick since i was (still am QQ) poor. new players have sooo many good resources now than they had back then.

the times i went to denjin ranbats i knew where i can and cannot play (i.e. not the big boy cabinets), since there were skilled players having some good sets. from there i would spectate and analyze what one of them was doing. seeing them play gets me motivated to get myself to that level. i think ppl forget that just playing the game (i.e. grinding), though very efficient, is not the only way to level up. in a way i blame online gaming for that, but at the same time it has helped to community grow…so there’s a love/hate thing going on.

i’ll admit. i’m no top player, and since real life is starting to kick in for me, time spent with street fighter is becoming less, though i still have those fundamentals i think i still have the potential to at least hang with some intermediate and maybe a few advanced players, and not just in street fighter ( i also play guilty gear and blazblue). one thing that i think street fighter in general is lacking would be a training system similiar to virtua fighter 4 evo. if capcom can do something like that im sure the player level can go up.

119

Reading this, I can understand where you are coming from, but to be honest, I believe the handicap system will not work.

If you want a level playing field it needs to be level, everything being the same, not giving some players an advantage/disadvantage.

It would be like Roger Federer playing an amateur. Would you tell Federer that if he played he can’t use a slice hit or he can’t use his backhand because the other guy is an amateur? No. Are you going to tell the amateur that he gets a 5 game advantage? You could but there would be discontent.

So would you tell Valle that he can’t use Ryu because the other guy is an amture, or Gootecks that he can’t do turn around punch? No, it wouldn’t make it a level playing field.

By putting a handicap on, I personally believe that you are handicapping the amateur player because once they rise into the big ranks, and that handicap goes away, they’ll be screwed.

IMO, if you’re going to enter a big tournament, know that you’re gonna be going against the best of the best and don’t expect any gimmies.

And with higher fees, you need to remember too that, yeah, higher fees with bigger payouts will attract more players, but on the counterpoint, it will probably shy away new players. would you want to pay upwards of 50 dollars in a 200 man tournament to go through (at least) 6 rounds and if you lose twice you’re out when you’re an amateur or scrub? I honestly wouldn’t. So higher fees can work against making the community bigger.

for those who are tl;dr

Handicap system – Not friendly at all

Higher Fees – counter effect towards players.

Edit: Also a request too…Can we be done with the SHGLs argument?

120

I think you’re missing the point, and that is that you don’t have the “heart” to get better. OG mentality is that you actually have to work to get respect, and not get any cajoling and spoon-feeding. You bitched out and gave not even an effort, so how do you expect to even have the will to win, when you’ve already lost from the start, having no heart?

“tough love” mentality from many OG arcade players…tough, but it still works for the hardened.

“If you can’t take it, don’t go”…simple as that, instead of being a bitch about it. Valle is a class act, and he teaches through his actions, and not his words. If you can’t learn through the subtle trial-and-error method, then you need the spoon-feeding method, which, of course, isn’t how Valle goes about his business.

Find a teacher that will stroke you and hold your hand and give you a false sense of security of your fake successes.