i am not trying to pick on you with this reply, i just think this is an important point.
many people who would be top players dont bother because not enough money is involved.
real life gets in the way because you have to pay the rent instead of training.
i honestly do not believe that cheating is an issue in street fighter.
the awesome recognition that guys like valle, gootecks and seb are providing is helping the community grow.
i think the next level is serious prize money.
top place at evo last year was $7,000 dollars right?
that is great from a passionate player’s perspective, “oh wow, i got to play street fighter and i made 7,000 bucks!” but it is definitely not enough incentive for a practical player.
my wife and i are planning to come out to evo '10 this summer and are putting aside $3k for the trip.
as prize money increases, so will the desire to obtain it.
when placing in top 8 once a month pays your bills, you will see a new level in fighting game skill.
no more "waaah, alex didnt play with me!"
the new breed will be “fuck alex, i want that money.”
^True…more practical, predator type players instead of the fanboys would show up…but you would still have people whining.
people love to see money on the line.
look at sf compared to poker.
some little old lady who couldnt give two shits about street fighter would become an instant fan if she heard that 50 grand was on the line.
every decision the players make becomes more interesting.
you are right though, i would still whine if i didnt get to play with alex.
Okay, Wonder_Chef… Honestly, this needs to stop. Lemme see if I can describe this all as carefully as possible.
As a top player, whether you are Valle, Wong, Choi, or Ricky, you only have so much time. Time is the biggest limiting factor on how many people you can teach, so most players take the time to only teach a few specific people, whether because they are your friends, you see they have potential, or they are paying you.
What makes what Valle is doing so unique is that he’s actually trying something no one has ever done: trying to teach AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE in what limited time he has. Who else has been taking on this sort of endeavor? I dare anyone to try and name ONE PERSON who is trying anything as ambitious as Valle is right now.
So the purpose of this thread is so Valle can figure out how to teach as many people how to play Street Fighter as possible in AS LITTLE TIME as possible. Frankly, he doesn’t have time to teach YOU how to play Street Fighter… and I don’t mean specifically you, I mean everyone who is reading this thread. He can’t do it. He just can’t.
So the trick is to figure out how to teach a lot of people at once. So Valle and I collaborated for a good amount of time on how to do that at shgl’s – obviously, Valle can’t attend to every individual there. It’s just impossible to do it and so he focuses on the ones with the most potential and hopes the lessons learned by them work their way down via everyone else that is there as people play each other.
So we came up with ban matches and the format by which to run them. Did we like the concept of banning people? No, not at all. But with sessions being so casual, we couldn’t figure out how to teach people because, with nothing on the line, it’s hard for people to learn. It’s like going to the gym yourself or hiring a personal trainer: when you are paying someone 40 bucks an hour, you are just gonna get more out of your session because your money is on the line!
So the ban matches were created to foster an environment of pressure and something on the line. This DOES help create stronger players, no matter how you look at it. Yes, everyone learns differently. But no one benefits from learning without pressure in a COMPETITIVE GAME, even if you just play the game casually. Even if it’s just bragging rights with your best friend, something on the line makes it all different.
AND THIS IS WHY EVERYONE IS ON YOUR CASE ABOUT SKIPPING YOUR BAN MATCH.
You want to know what Valle did to help you learn?? That’s exactly what he did: set you up in a ban match. If you played it and tried your hardest not to lose even on a bad gaming day like the one you were having, THE LESSONS YOU WOULD HAVE LEARNED FROM THAT MATCH WOULD HAVE BEEN IMMEASURABLE. Even if you didn’t realize it, the pressure, being on the stream, etc. was exactly what Valle did to teach you. SF is mentality almost more than anything else. And Valle created ban matches to teach people SF and SF mentality without having to attend to everyone individually.
So you need to stop getting on Valle’s case. The fact you keep up the attitude is exactly why Valle is justified brushing you off: you are wasting his and everyone else who is reading this thread’s time. I’m not trying to be a dick to you, you know that’s not who I am. I’m just telling you that you NEED an attitude readjustment. Valle is not your problem. He already did what he could to teach you and you threw that opportunity away already. Now you just need to let it go and make sure that you don’t throw that opportunity away next time.
Okay, everyone. Enough about how Valle can teach YOU Street Fighter. Let’s get back to the subject at hand, and that’s how top players can teach everyone SF WITHOUT catering to each and every individual. That’s what is at hand, here.
- James
How does this ban system work? I have read that on the west coast they were doing training sessions like this but I don’t know the details. Is there a way to redeem yourself if you lose? I’m interested in how this works, since I’ve never been to a real “training session” with a group of people gathered specifically to level.
In regards to the ban system at SHGL’s–
-There are multiple stations set up for the varying skill levels.
-The players plays everyone else in their station.
-The players with the worst win record have to play each other. Winner stays. Loser gets banned.
-If you are banned it is possible to return if you place top 8 in a tournament.
That’s about it.
Pherai said something that really clicked and that I think a lot of us average joe SF players should read and heed:
“The stuff that is most important for you to learn, you can learn from players that are weaker than Valle, so its not worth his time to teach you something you can learn from someone less in demand.”
I was on the ‘must play only top players to get good fast’’ bandwagon, but this makes total sense to me, well said.
Anyway, Having just attended my first ‘training session’ in my local scene, I am becoming jealous of the ‘valle training method’ that I am reading about here that happens at SHGL’s place (btw, shgl is always down to play online…no ego there, top tier blanka). The training session I went to the other night had all the right intentions. There were a bunch of people there, some playing tekken, some playing SF4, some playing CvS2. I know it’s meant to be something that everyone can level up at and it was a good time, but as far as improving my game was concerned it really lacked organized teaching/learning methods. It was casuals in every since of the word. I got one piece of advice while I was playing from someone, none from anyone that beat me, and I didn’t get the chance to talk to anyone that I beat because they bugged out to play another game or talk to some friends. I didn’t stay the entire time, so perhaps there was something more going on after the first three hours of it or so, but it seemed more like just a bunch of friends getting together to play than a training session. Props to them for getting everyone together, but I think a lot of communities get people together and then wait for them to just magically start improving by having them play each other once a week. It’s disorganized. I know not everyone can teach and it seemed to me last night that the ones that could teach or that did know about the game were offering up advice but not really with the intention of leveling anyone up. They were just making off hand comments at whoever they happened to be playing with. It’s possible that it could have been a one off, but I don’t think so.
That being said I would love to see the ‘Valle method’ implemented around the country. Whatever you guys are doing in SoCal needs to be done everywhere with the same amount of discipline and organization. It would be great to see an official template for an SF training session that other FGC organizers can implement into their own local scenes. A 'How to level up your local scene" guide if you will with an emphasis on how to hold a proper training session. I don’t know if something like this would possible or not. Alex, people listen to you and look up to you within your scene, but my scene doesn’t really have a clear leader with over a decade of experience. It would be awesome if you could somehow bring your experience to our training sessions.
Thanks slash and sanchez for explaining it to me. Sounds like a neat system.
I know when I’m GGPO and getting my ass beat by the same person I normally stay and play until the other person leaves to go do something else. Some are friendly enough to chat it up since it is only the two of us playing the game. But if I’m losing and the other person is really silent, I still play anyways just to learn, even though its much more productive if the other person actually speaks. Though if it was a face-to-face situation, losing a bunch of games straight in row and having the other person not bat an eye or say anything to you about the game would seem really weird.
So if I was top, I guess I would try to expose people to what I do. Since I often try to learn how something would work.
I’ll try to check out the stream to see how it is. I got back from college for break but I haven’t managed to sit down and play much fighting games.
For those interested in Weds Night Fights Training Regimen I have 2:
Road to the Finals - Tournament Training
Ban Matches - Mentality Training
If you guys want more information please PM me.
Thanks for everybody’s support on what I’m doing. I am lucky to have dedicated players to help me with the Weds Night Fights production.
I posted the next season of Weds Night Fights Live Stream on the front page of SRK online calendar!
The things needed most for new players are nerves of steel and the die-hard mentality (I call it “Rocky mentality” myself).
Nerves of steel will come in handy when you’re playing. A lot of top players are known for not succumbing to the pressure of a tense moment (easiest example is Daigo vs. Justin at Evo 2004, I believe), and as well, they pride themselves on knowing that they can force other players to break and do something utterly stupid. It’s like poker. You’ve read the opponent’s tells and know how he’ll respond, so you play accordingly (obviously, luck is a factor here too, but that’s less prevalent in a fighting game). Now, we’re disposed to the fight-or-flight mentality, where our mind and body will respond in general with its reflexes and impulses. However, your opponent might use this against you, given that he knows what you’re doing.
The second is the “Rocky” mentality. Ever remember the Rocky movies? How he never gave up? How it was always about “train harder, keep fighting, etc.”, and what not. It applies here. You may be going into the fight as the underdog. However, your mentality is always, “I’m going to destroy this fucker.” Yes. You’re going to destroy this fucker. And if you don’t, find out why you didn’t and do whatever you can (given the parameters of the game and what you are capable of/able to learn) in order to counter it. You wouldn’t believe how much I had to learn in order to become semi-decent in the Alex vs. Chun match-up (being the Alex player). But I understand it better now.
Develop those and you’ll understand the mentality of it. Ideally, the best players have the fierce mentality combined with the knowledge of their character; with that, they apply it to what the opponent shows them. In your mind, however, you must always think, “I have pocket aces, I’m going to control this table,” regardless of whatever the board shows.
And Valle, you’re inordinately awesome for setting up this system and going out of your way to instruct and groom a new generation of players.
you gotta get rid of that mangina
compliments shouldn’t keep you going LOL.
I think alex should do a 101 thread. A few years back when duc won evo his 2nd time, I believe he made a thread pretty soon right after that in the mvc2 spiral section. He basically said fuck it, ask me anything about my team and I’ll give you a GREAT answer. Alex could sit here and post his thoughts about playing @ high level and im sure most of would learn something but to pick @ someones brain is an entirely different story.
just not alex though. Really all the top players should have a 101 thread where you can ask them anything SF related. People spend a lot of time playing raining\practicing, I don’t expect them to hand it out on a silver plate. :sad:
A couple of the things I hear trouble me, a lot of conversation is dominated by a ban match, who lost to what scrub. Too much of the elder player’s time online is spent complaining and responding to those same people that aren’t worth focusing on, and it’s been that way for a long time, not just here. I am happy that Valle is trying to change that but I think there are some issues to address. I don’t like the negative tone of these conversations, and it seems like the point of these events (to the outside) is to ban the bottom players. Why do the top players (the ones that are supposed to win tournaments, the best chances for the group, the ones that are supposed to get battle ready) play in a no pressure no lose situation, while the people that have no hope fight for their lives? Seems backwards.
If your an NFL fan are you talking about the teams that got eliminated from the playoffs? or the ones that could go to the super bowl? Only the top teams even get to play in do or die games, everyone else just fades away and goes home, unless your a Lions fan, you probably aren’t going to give them another thought until next year, and you are going to watch the top teams play for the title.
The idea of having different stations and skill levels is great and should be emulated, i just think the focus is on the wrong side. The best thing that a top player in the FGC scene can do is to not spend 90% of the time talking about ban matches and complaining about new players, and instead get those top stations to a level where they can compete for the top spots, to focus on selecting talent that can be of their level, and not talent that is “barely good enough to even be here”. I would like to be able to read about the new stars, the people that are almost ready to place top 8 at evo, but it’s hard to when the system appears to be setup to focus and spotlight the banned players.
You have this wrong. I don’t care that I was never actually taught anything at the sessions. I don’t care that I got banned. I don’t care that a lot of people don’t like me now, hell I wouldn’t care if all of SRK hated me. What I’m mad about is that Valle is a person who is looked up to by a lot of people in the community; even I will still say that I respect his skill. And this person who is looked up to as one of the top west coast players, if not one of the best US players, is very blatantly throwing personal insults in my face that I did nothing to deserve. I was VERY mature about the situation, and never once instigated or even hinted at wanting a conflict. Here was my post:
And Valle went along with (if not even further than) the group of people to insult me for this post as so:
Now I would understand if he had just said that it wasn’t a good move on my part to not play my match, but to go this far? That’s just immaturity. And Alex Valle is trying to teach this attitude to the community? I understand that trash talk is a part of the community, but that’s trash talk about playing the game. When someone insults you as a human, it crosses the line. I guarantee that if somebody talked like this to me in real life, I wouldn’t hesitate to clock the guy.
Is an attitude like that really going to help the community? No. I don’t care if it raises the competition, there’s a place where you cross the line.
I can say that once upon a time I was active in a tournament scene for a game with MUCH more money involved. Placing 3rd at the last tournament I ever went to got me $1000 and a PS3, and that was only regionals. There was only one big difference between that scene, and this scene: Maturity. None of the top players would have acted even close to how Valle acted. These people knew that they were looked up to, and knew that even if the game is competitive, people should be treated the same as any other person you met on the street.
Valle, if you REALLY want to contribute to the community, that means you have to teach maturity by showing maturity. I don’t give a rat’s ass if you think that I’m the trashiest player that the world has ever seen, but be mature about it. Do you think that new players, let alone possible sponsors for tournaments, would be encouraged by looking at your post and saying “This is how the top players in the community act?” Somehow, I doubt it.
exactly. sf4 has magnified this “players and fans” community (although it did exist before, but with more real players and fewer fans) when in reality EVERYONE SHOULD BE PLAYERS. it isn’t the nfl. the POINT of sf is that you can become a high level player no matter what your background, but people don’t want to put the work in. people still can’t get it through their heads that if they want something instantly gratifying they need to go play mw2 or some shit because sf takes WORK to be good at, and more importantly to truly appreciate.
but again, lets go back to excluding people, being elitist, and perpetuating this stupid fanboy mentality with “ban matches”.
By the own merits of your post, you could also say that not being a dick will hurt the community. What predator would play in a community that isn’t aggressive?
it’s not just about you. Valle being a bastard to you might deter you from gettin into the FG scene, but there’s people out there he’ll deter by not being a bastard. it’s 50/50… if you don’t wanna deal with that shit, then just avoid Valle. but honestly, I don’t see what the big deal is. if Valle told me I was a coward, shaking like a lil girl… I wouldn’t give a fuck. if it was annoying me, I’d tell him to shut the fuck up… and from there, it’d be a different beast.
the question is, does it bother you because it’s annoying, or does it bother you because you acknowledge what Valle says as true?
lol wonder chef is weak. this isn’t a fuckin cotillion son. if you dodge a match with something on the line, and expect people to politely say “hey, i think it was a poor choice on your part to not play your ban match”, you’re living in a dreamland.
Nothing. Other than what top players in the FGC are already doing to help, the rest of the effort should lie in the hands of the upcoming players. I’m not sure if you can teach hard work and determination, but you can certainly preach it. So, go train hard, you can do it, never give up, never make excuses, reach for the stars, etc. Go as far as you’re willing to go with a certain game and use whatever means you feel you can to do so.
Son, seriously. Stop right fucking there… and STOP FUCKING POSTING! You just lost the respect of everyone with that one post. To ‘NOT CARE’ is a big fucking deal. If that is the case, you don’t belong in this community. Personally, I don’t hate you or any bull shit like that. Its your attitude… your losing attitude. You’re a loser… a quitter. Sorry, bro. I’ve trained the best of the best in the armed services and there is no ‘losing or quitting allowed’. (If they did, people die) Sure, I had a few people not up to the task, but with the proper motivation and training, I got them to where they wanted to be. Keyword: wanted. If you want to achieve something, anything, you’ll do everything possible to achieve it. You got to hustle to get what you want in life because not a damn person out there is going to give it to you for free.
Take from this as you see fit. Take from what James just posted. Take from all the flame and negative comments on here (that you brought onto yourself) and use it as motivation to get back in good graces with Valle and the rest of the community. Everyone fucks up, but you have to learn to bounce back from it and not let it affect you.
I don’t even want to get started with the ‘maturity’ comment. Just read all of your posts. Kind of being contradicting are we? Anyway, I don’t know if watch TV or sports, but I can name a lot of celebrities with bad attitudes and that are immature yet they keep making movies and athletes keep getting sponsored. Ex: Emmit Smith… enough said
Carry on…
If i was a top player, Id want to beat you 100-3, and Jwong 200-0, Then id stop playing forever.
Wonder_Chef,
You will be the only So.Cali player permanently banned from any of my sessions.
Go find Mr.Miyagi to hold your hand cause you can’t hang with Cobra Kai.
Ok enough of Wonder_Chef, lets not discuss this anymore plz.
If he posts just ignore, I’ll get him banned from here too lol.
Everybody else that was banned can comeback and play with us since their lesson is over.
Those players followed my instructions and played their hearts out. I want to see how they’re doing now, if there’s any improvement.
Btw,
I’m not not going forward with the Ban matches for Weds Night Fights 2010.
I have a few new ideas to test out that will teach players how I approach a match. RTSD 101 of sorts =)