For the sake of argument, I’ll call her a gimmick. Just wanted to get my point across in saying that it shouldn’t be an excuse in using certain anti-Phoenix tech, or devising your own.
Also Cosmic, you should have added snap-backs.
Honestly I haven’t been here for very long, and I know that I hate Phoenix in all intents and purposes, I hate her design I hate how she plays I hate how she changes the game (for the most part). But hey if you want to be the best there is and win exploiting every single possible aspect you can of a game is something that is no stranger to the top players. But hey let people rage about what they rage about not like they’ll change.
Idk about you but my Wesker cannot get in on Dark Phoenix, I agree with Dante and Dorm but I must be doing something wrong then. Not to turn this into HOW TO HATE AND DEFEAT PHOENIX thread.
Well that too, yeah.
Not so much getting in as running away. Have you ever seen a Wesker run away from Phoenix? It’s easy as hell.
Wesker’s ability to actually hit Phoenix is limited…but he is probably one of the best characters at the lame out runaway strategy that has otherwise died off as a viable option against 5 bar regular Phoenix. Spider Man can do a pretty good job running from her too I would say (of course having the death touch on 5 bar phoenix as well).
X-23 is also one of the better anti Phoenix characters since she can XF 1 kill one character in the corner, land a random hit on the next and as long as they stay in the corner snap in Phoenix, call jam session or other big hit box lock down assist, no more Phoenix. I just don’t like XF1 X-23 a whole lot so I usually end up putting Dante first either way.
Poor Arthur.
Not only does he fall into a hard knockdown state after his gold armor expires, he’s actually in a weaker (but sexier) version that normal. Why he can’t renew the armor before it expires? Why does he go into underwear mode after gold armor the begin with? I have not the slightest idea.
His Lv3 is definitely something though.
I can’t resist saying that Sentinel and Dorm on my team are my anti-phoenix, Dormmamu’s chaotic flame can easily punish any salty balls, if I stand on the flame carpet (give enough time that I could do so) she can’t teleport onto me with being punished. Stalking Flare pretty much only works if you call it as she’s coming in, at random it’s a free teleport behind you and punish. 3 Red is also a free screen punish. Sentinel’s got dat armor that if I get lucky enough can stop Phoenix in her tracks…if only.
Seems like they HAD to include underwear mode somehow as iconic, and also were afraid of gold mode being too good.
So we ended up with something bad 
I don’t really care who they pick I’ll respect any player. Just don’t pretend Noel / Viscant are on the same level as Wong and Combo as a player. Skill is a seperate factor from your team all together.Seems to me Justin only uses Wolverine to clear through the sea of scrubs quicker and easier at this point.
Some people do what they have to to win. Combofiend and Justin pick who they like and win. Stay free.
I’m actually becoming more and more skeptical of the phoenix nerfs as this game advances. I think they’re poorly directed and rather kneejerk, as indicated by how Phoenix is becoming less and less dominant as the game evolves. I question whether Phoenix’s utter dominance for that small period of time was an actual indication of flawed balance, or as much of a fad as back when the game was “whoever activates X-factor first loses” or “whoever has the best sentinel wins”
Well yeah I mean that’s the way Capcom balances everything. They twists arms and step on feet when things are too powerful rather than doing more careful approaches. In the end what they did still changes the core of what needed to be changed with Phoenix which is the character being less dominant over the strategies their opponents can utilize.
Phoenix players can still easily swing momentum with 5 bars and shit on anyone who isn’t a top player rather easily so it has to be done in the same way Sentinel with 1.3 million health stomped on scrubs online all day also. Dark Phoenix has a much stronger control of high level play than Sentinel did also so that’s why she’s an even bigger target. She doesn’t lose to practically all the high tiers like O.Sent did.
Possibly, again I’m just curious as to how dominant she’d end up being in the end if she were left unchanged. As she’s already seen a slight diminishing in dominance over time.
Plus Capcom’s changes don’t really address (imo) the core issues with Phoenix. Namely that when DPh hits the field, she puts you in an unreactable highly favorable to her mixup. One where you guess wrong and lose a character and end up putting yourself in another mixup, or guess right and win the game.
Instead of nerfing that to leave us with a more stable ( but still ridiculously strong ) character, like they did with some of the (weaker) analogs like Berserker Slash and Phantom Move + assist… They simply made it harder for her to put you into that situation to begin with ( and simultaneously made running her anywhere other than anchor an even worse idea than it was in vanilla ), which leaves me even more skeptical.
That “core issue” you bring up isn’t really an issue. That’s the way Capcom intends you to play the character. Dark Phoenix is supposed to be your win button that takes down whole teams. She’s your ace and as a Phoenix player you have to play for her. Capcom was just afraid regular Phoenix would not be good enough to make seeing Dark Phoenix a regular thing. Now that Capcom knows just how strong Dark Phoenix is they seem ok with nerfing regular Phoenix pretty hard so that if Dark Phoenix comes out…the same terrible results happen though less often.
They’re just banking on regular Phoenix being low mid tierish ends up balancing things so that there’s a more solid way to control the ace that will tear your entire team down. They most likely made this decision based on the fact that regular Phoenix doesn’t really play much of a factor in whether or not Dark Phoenix comes out any way. She’s not the one building her bars most of the time any way. Once a Phoenix team gets 5 bars she’s just kinda out there to troll until she gets hit and turns into Dark. Might as well just make that situation harder to come to place.
Possible. I’m just not so sure if they really like that so much given that they’ve apparently been trying to take away stupid mixups from other characters.
I suppose it’s just preference though. I would have enjoyed DPh being made more solid and less, pardon the foul language, random, while still leaving her ridiculous and still leaving regular Phoenix a decent character.
If I’m going to assume things based on what Capcom likes to do…they like to make sure that all the characters play unique from one another and what makes Phoenix unique is mostly that she’s a two part character. One that’s ok but has no health and another that’s completely broken and runs the game but has no health. If they make DPh a “solid” character then that kinda defeats any uniqueness about her in their eyes I guess. They can just make her one character at that point. Her 2 part power exchange is what makes her unique in the overall scheme of things.
I’m not talking about her power though. I just think it’d be better to make a fast, dominant, brutally deadly character who doesn’t essentially revolve around a 50/50 mixup that wins the game for the player who guesses right.
Oh…well yeah Dark Phoenix definitely could do without that welcome trap BS but…that’s something for Capcom to patch later I guess. Either way it still plays into what you should be doing when you fight a Phoenix player. Not let Dark Phoenix happen in the first place.
Guess people can breathe a bit easier since she’s getting hit by the nerf sledge hammer in UMvC3. Dunno if the indirect nerf of Air X-Factor or her limit oon air Fireballs or EVEN THE FACT THAT SHE GOT LESS HP NOW will warrant her the hate, but people will still find ways to be effective with her, though possibly not as dominating as she is right now.
So after UMvC3 drops, who’s gonna get the hate? Vergil?
Vergil looks stupid as shit but luckily his stupidest shit at least be meter requirement. He still has normals that are longer than Dante’s…
Which is why I’m gonna pick him yayyy! More emo sword guys FTW.
IRON FUCKING FIST.