Or you could try getting legitimately familiar with all of the characters/teams within the three extremes: one top, one bottom, and one mid tier.
There’s really no excuse to *not *learn how to play well with Wolverine or Wesker. Mid-level combos and mixups work all the way up to the professional level and require bare minimum execution.
Bacon
If we had an EVO beauty pageant, would Viscant win?
Pretty sure everyone who isn’t trolling or an idiot knows that Zero and Viper are top tier. For that matter I don’t think Zero’s ever been considered anything short of top 10.
All they need to do really is weaken her stupid strong mixup, particularly on incoming characters. She’s ridiculously strong innately, but the biggest flaw on her own is that she gets free, semi-safe 50/50s that lead into more 50/50s. Essentially turning the entire game, regardless of how well you did prior to DPh activating, into a very difficult to manage guessing game for both players. A few other minor things, but that’s essentially the most egregious aspect of her kit.
Though Ultimate takes the exact opposite approach, largely keeping Dark Phoenix’s guessing game just as scary as before, but makes it easier for you to avoid being put into it to begin with ( air action nerfs, health nerf, meter gain nerf, meter stealing moves/tacs ). So that rather than making Dark Phoenix more reasonable, or at least more honest, she still wrecks your shit, but is more difficult to pull out. Which admittedly has its own merits, one of the problems with the character in vanilla is that actually fielding her is rather trivial as long as you aren’t overusing meter. Though it creates ( or rather exacerbates ) this situation where the one player is actually playing a different style of game than the non-phoenix player, which some consider bad.
After you telling me that, I don’t feel comfortable reporting anything to you. It would be pointless as you’ve already seen what’s here.
Bait Much? Proud of myself for what? I enjoy the character so I play the character end of story. I am glad you put out a Very thought out and meaningful response.[details=Spoiler](Sarcasm off).[/details] This is a Marvel vs Capcom game, Some people actually do read comics and have loyalties as a fan of that character. I played Phoenix/Thor/Dorm Day One why? Because they were my three favorite comic characters that were in the game at that time. is Phoenix Low tier? I really hate the anonymity that the internet provides it brings out the pseudo tough guys and in droves.
Edited to add.
(Still Sipping on Asgards Finest!)
(Thank you, Alidfe. I’ll decline on saying whether I agree just yet.)
Viktorkain, seriously. Just ignore him and stop letting yourself get baited. No one wants a back and forth on this.
Basically. It’s not like people playing top tier characters can’t make excuses as well, especially against lower-end characters doing relatively basic crap that’s “surprising” even though it should be well relatively well-known since that character is in the game normally and there’s like a literally hundreds of times more videos flying around compared to “the old days”. Not knowing how to fight against Jill or Shuma is slightly more legitimate since you have to buy them.
refrains from posting a certain recent video or going into a rant about DLC characters
Then some people would still just argue that the bottom tier character is dragging your team even if that’s the character you’re legitimately the most comfortable with and do the best with. Compromising yourself never really stops if you do it solely for others.
(Also, I’m not sure what you mean by teams “within the three extremes”? Do you honestly mean having three teams compromised only characters from each [ill-defined] tier? Or “just” trying to memorize every common team [and variant thereof] that pops up?)
I can think of at least one of legitimate excuse: neither of those characters are zoners, which some people do like playing–points to self–even if it’s a weaker style in this game. Wesker can zone rather decently with his gunshots, but that’s not what he’s about since generally not going to kill anyone with damage from just across the screen, stupid X-Factor gun infinite aside.
This isn’t to say that you shouldn’t learn how to fight against them (or any top tier character, including Phoenix). However, given how utterly prevalent they are, that rather goes without saying to anyone who isn’t an utter scrub and/or idiot that would rather spend time whining about how powerful top tier characters are rather than trying to find out ways to combat them with the characters they use.
If there’s any top tier character that we should be “forcing” people to learn, then Dr. Doom is the way and the light (as ever). Seriously, he can do everything well as it is and now going into UMvC3 can for some reason do everything well even better, so you’re going to be guaranteed to seeing a really large amount of him. It also helps that unlike Wesker and especially Wolverine, his assists are all good; he’s honestly the only character in the game whose assists are not only worth a damn, but actually great as well–this when a lot of characters are struggling to even have one useful assist, heh.
And yet it’s comes up a fair bit from people whom I know aren’t either, which is why I said “for some reason”, especially given that most of the reasoning seems to be that just he hasn’t appeared that frequently in tournaments [yet]. (Also, top 10 becomes arguable depending on how large you feel the top tier is. I mean in general, not with regards to my current opinion and whether I agree that he’s that high or not.)
People doubting Viper is slightly more legitimate just because even as greatly as she can screw you up, especially in theory where she like 10-0s almost everyone, she hasn’t been shown that often (compared to other top tier characters) and it’s a lot easier to screw up with her than it is with Zero. I mean, if someone with even MarlinPie’s monstrous execution can screw up with Maya and then get killed for it…yeah.
shrugs
At this point, I’m already starting to brace myself for the scrubs who inevitably say Dr. Doom isn’t top tier in UMvC3 just because they like to use him but supposedly top tier characters are “skill-less” and characters they feel they shouldn’t be playing; similarly, already bracing myself for the bitching about how he didn’t deserve to be nerfed when he almost inevitably gets patched after a few months like Sentinel.
I’m not arguing with you on this at all, don’t get me wrong here. I respect those who use top-tiers (some are pretty amazing/creative), and none of them deserve hating on as people - we as players and as people should have more discipline than that.
But for pity’s sake Fivec, do you have to be such a Win-or-you-suck strawman about it?
This, for me. I can live with the rest of the things but X-factor negating the one single thing about Dark Phoenix that (in theory) was supposed to balance her is something that flabbergasts me. I could live with the health gain being equal to the life loss, meaning that she would not regen at all but not bleed either.
That’s most likely why they reduced the time that Dark Phoenix can be in XF since it was obvious that specific aspect of her gameplay never came into place because of XF. If you have 3 characters alive she’ll probably have to actually worry about that for once.
(Thank you as well, Bottom Tier Hatman.)
The more I think about it, the more I realize Healing Field would probably be ridiculously busted if it was a Level 1 that a Phoenix with higher health could freely use without having to worry about holding on to her meter to become Kali. I’m not really sure cutting down on the time it lasts would heal either considering how freakishly fast she heals if you’re even barely touching the field. Hmm…
They reduced the amount of time that she can be in X-Factor? Her specifically or just cutting down on X-Factor time? I had thought X-Factor 3 still lasted a stupidly long time and only the other two X-Factors got nerfed. Then again, I’ve been lazier about keeping up with everything given all the other stuff I’m trying to do this past month.
as someone who loves food and cooking as much as video games i have to say that burger analogy was horrible.
People sometimes look at tournament results to closely instead of the actual character , look at all the Evo Viper nonsense. I actually think its a good thing that Capcom is releasing UMVC3 so people can give some of the characters a second look.
Viscant is godlike son.
No, no, there’s a misunderstanding here.
What I’m saying is, it’s beneficial to learn characters (in 1v1 fighting games) or teams (in 3v3 fighting games) from every tier combination. For example, if you’re playing AE, you could learn to play several different characters, including the top tier, the middle tier, and the bottom tier. Learn to play all three levels because each one teaches you something different. Knowing how to use a whored-out top tier doesn’t allow you to make the excuse of “Oh, I was playing against a god tier character, so of course I lost” and since *everybody *whores that character, it also doesn’t allow you the crutch of playing with a character no one is used to. On the other hand, using a low-tier character forces you to squeeze everything you can out of your skillset and gimmicks. It can teach you to be a smarter player by not having the natural advantage of a higher tier to fall back on. And middle tiers can do both, but are usually more matchup specific–which is also important.
That’s exactly my point. I’m not saying that you *have *to use these characters, but it’s good to learn them and there is absolutely no reason not to do so. Even with mid-level tactics, Wesker, Wolverine and Phoenix are all stupid good and easy as hell to execute with. There’s no reason why people shouldn’t be familiar with those characters at least on a basic level. There’s no reason for a player to feel pigeonholed in Marvel (or many other fighting games for that matter) if there are top tiers which are this cheap and easy to use.
Phoenix or no Phoenix, Viscant clearly put the most work into MvC3 out of everyone leading into EVO and he deserved the win. Sorry Viscant if you think you’re falling off when people root for you, but I will always root for whoever puts the most work in - whether they’re the underdog or a 10-time EVO champion. Effort = results.
No he fucking didn’t. He made a better team choice, that’s it, and what’s more is that it was a team so obvious I’m kinda wondering why nobody else played it. My opinion is that there were half a dozen players who demonstrated more in-depth knowledge of one character than Viscant needed for his entire team.
I might be a little bit more charitable if I hadn’t seen Viscant try to play Storm and Iron Man at Devastation, but he did not look like a top player without a cheesy assist to shore up his lacking defense and Phoenix to give him the random 300% damage ultra combo comeback factor. He looked even worse when we got to see his Storm & Justin’s almost back to back.
This thread sucks as much as the Phoenix concept sucks. I’m glad they tried it out and I’m glad they are putting two bullets in its head. Either way most of this thread is what’s wrong with SRK. Can’t believe Preppy hasn’t closed this shit yet.
I do not think it’s the ‘tiers’ that teach you things more than mastering various characters with different playstyles
If you watch the Filipino Champ vs. Honzo Gonzo finals…it’s pretty obvious that XF3 lasts short enough where his XF3 was gone by the time the 2nd character died. If he had had t okill a 3rd character to win the match he would have to do it without XF. Like you said though…what I’ve heard is that everyone will now have different TIMES for XF. Supposedly all of the strength and speed buffs have been normalized but now the new thing that keeps everyone diverse is that different characters have different XF LENGTHS. Some characters can literally stay in XF longer than others and apparently Dark Phoenix is one of the characters with a shorter XF duration. I guess we’ll have to wait for the strategy guide to come out to see exactly how it works but yeah.