(Oh gods, someone mentioned “fighting game” and Brawl in the same paragraph as means of to prove something.
runs for bunker)
This is going to be something of another aside, but given how likely this thread will probably get derailed by other things as it is, I figure I’ll post it anyway, especially since these hands of mine are burning red! Their loud roar tells me to grasp verbosity! Erupting! Burning! FINGERS!
Here I go!
So, when it comes to the Phoenix hate, there’s something that’s always nagged me even knowing fully realizing how utterly dumb (XF3) Dark Phoenix is, possibly because I rather like Jean (the character and the regular version, sans homing ball stupidity): How many changes would have to be made to Phoenix for her to be a character that people didn’t feel dumbed down the game?
I’m going to make list of options both because that’s the easiest way to make these options viewable among the sea of words and I like (abusing) lists. I’m also going to try to list these in order of severity (IMO), but feel free to pick multiple options since none of these necessarily build into each other:
[LIST=1]
[]If Dark Phoenix’s bleeding didn’t stop when she was in X-Factor mode?
[]If Dark Phoenix’s X-Factor buffs were less powerful?
[]If Dark Phoenix’s 
TK Trap didn’t wallbounce people?
[]If Dark Phoenix’s attacks weren’t all (automatically) accompanied by feathers?
[]If (Dark) Phoenix couldn’t shoot multiple, rather durable, homing fireballs in the air that she can teleport right after? (Part of the current UMvC3 “solution”.)
[]If Phoenix’s death throes when turning into Dark Phoenix wasn’t an invincible, omnidirectional wall of flame that blows you across the room, is completely safe and can be comboed off in some situations?
[]If Dark Phoenix was an entirely optional, but permanent transformation that cost five levels of bar ala Dark Sakura from MvC3? (Some things would probably have to change for this, such as Phoenix either getting more life from the get-go and then not resetting her health bar when she transformed or getting a full health recharge when she transformed instead, like Healing Field except on steroids.)
[]If Dark Phoenix were a lesser (Level 3) timed super, like Strider Hiryu’s Ouroburous?
[]If (Dark) Phoenix had even less life? (The other main part of the current UMvC3 “solution”.)
[]If Dark Phoenix didn’t exist and Jean was just a regular character with around 750k-800k life who could do pretty much everything she did now with some possible exceptions? (For example, Healing Field might have to be toned down…somehow and Phoenix Rage might have to lose some of its invincibility and/or damage since she now can throw 5 of them at you, free of worry.)
[*]Other. (Removing her from the game isn’t an option. Sorry.)
[/LIST]
I’m genuinely curious about this since every time I hear people–sometimes rightly–kvetch about Phoenix, it’s usually more due to her Dark form than anything, which everyone knows is pretty stupid (but which scrubs seems to think is invincible and thus “honorless”) even people who use her; those people still use her because, hey, free cheap shit that benefits greatly from the system–shocking, I know. The only other really common complaint about Jean is that she can run away far too easily when she gets snapped in, which is true and something that UMvC3"fixes", but at the expense of really not doing a damn thing to with anything else that actually makes Dark Phoenix as immensely stupid as she can be in XF(3)–this is part of the reason that I feel they made Dark Phoenix even worse in a sense since now Jean is even more reliant on her “Win Button” gimmick. (I freely admit, though, that Viscant is definitely right that making Jean good while having Dark Phoenix be as good as she needs to be guarantees that she ends up top tier; whether she would have to be as dumb as she is now, though…)
So, yeah?
Profound sadness. =/
It’s kinda funny how despite how much I play Chris, I think I’ve only looked at the Chris Redfield section here thrice at most.
Unfortunately, netplay is all I know since not wanting to drive (and, currently, having very little disposal income) has always screwed me out of going to tournaments even if I felt I was competent enough to go, which I don’t in most instance.
I’ve been holding the button to target, which is perhaps the reason why, but it happens in training mode too without lag, so…I guess I just need to learn the timing. I still think it’s the worst Level 3, though. Thankfully it’s more damaging than most. It’s just inconsistent and too slow compared to every other Level 3, which is why it’s automatically worst.
Stupidity. It’s the answer to most things where humans are involved.
While the blanket “low tiers are for excuse makers” is/was immensely stupid, given his other conditionals before that, I don’t think he was talking about people like you or me who use low tier (or, more accurately, “not top tier” characters since Thor is hardly bad in actuality and Chris, at worst, is still the 9th character from the bottom IMO) characters because we like them. He seems be addressing people that bitch about how using top tier characters means you have no “honor” and how people who play top tier characters wouldn’t win without them because they’re otherwise skill-less hacks that the characters carry. You know, the standard scrub bullshit that applies even if the scrub in question likes the “low tier” character in question. There’s indeed a marked difference in noting that “man, Chris has problems against anyone who can stay in the air” and “god damn it! Stop using Phoenix and flying around like a bitch so I can shoot you in the ovaries already!”
I was going to address that part of Deus’s post just because some people genuinely don’t like playing top tiers not because those characters are top tier, but because none of the top tier characters have playstyles those people like; however, I refrained I felt it was just better ignore it. I mean, I know personally that the only top tier character I’ve ever, ever liked playing as was Cable in MvC2. Does that mean that I intentionally avoid top tier characters? Mostly, no, even if I freely admit that I fucking hate mirror matches in most instances, which is part of the reason why I gravitate towards lower end characters enough to at least attempt to try them out.
It also doesn’t stop me from having used other characters who weren’t necessarily top tier (or at the very top), but were otherwise high, like K-Rock in CvS2 or Dormammu (and now, probably [as in my use of him], Doom) in this game–the MvC3 examples are perhaps especially ironic since both of those characters are very likely to become top tier in UMvC3 (with Doom pretty much guaranteed to be the best character in the game at this point) since they both got buffs they didn’t need. That’s not going to stop me from playing them if I actually (still) like the characters and think that I ultimately play them well enough to not do a disservice to them, which is why I don’t play Phoenix even though I do actually like her–I tend to get hit rather often, especially if I play a rushdown character (which Phoenix can be so easily), and since Phoenix pretty much already died from anything…
But, bah, enough about me. I feel vain just relaying this.
What I was getting before my usual long-winded took over is just don’t let it get to you, however dumb a comment it is/was. People are going always going to make those with regards to…everything. Tiers, both high and low, are no different.
TK Trap didn’t wallbounce people?