This thread makes me really glad that many of you aren’t in charge of this game.
Also: I think it’s weird with all the stupid shit in this game people are choosing TAC to whine about, even though it’s probably the single most innocuous mechanic in the game.
The may be more offensive and aggegious mechanics then TAC, but there are none that are dumber.
In fact, none even come close to that level of stupidity.
It’s not a very well thought out mechanic, but in a thread titled “if you could make one change to the game”, the sheer number of people complaining about a mechanic that’s often not even significantly relevant to play is very disheartening.
Though I disagree, XF3 is far stupider. The worst anyone can say about TAC is that it’s not very interesting or well designed.
Psuedo Random moments in the Fighter Genre is a clear standpoint that the company behind it is either A) demonstrating the power the hold over their user base, or B) slowly forgetting the base fundamentals that makes the games what they are. Either or, the fact is that randomness should never be a factor in a game based upon reflex, knowledge, and skill.
Never.
I actually found it weird too, seems like there are more important things to fix than TAC.
“Stupid” =/= “broken”
Very, true, but both need to be fixed just as badly.
Define “psuedo random” for me. I want to make sure I’m reading you right before I call you an idiot.
You realize that “psuedo” means “false”?
Otherwise, i agree.
I already said it, TAC is like something out of a Naruto or DBZ game, if you don’t find something wrong with that… IDK what to tell you. At least in those games it looked cool. In MvC3, we get all the stupid, and none of the flashyness.
It’s generally a deterministic generator for random numbers used by software - it’s still random, there’s just an algorithm behind it. You can’t really determine what the other person is going to do unless they flat out tell you, hence they’re creating the algorithm and you’re trying to reverse engineer it. I mean, if you want me to just say random instead, that works too. But if name-calling and being an internet tough guy is your thing, go for it.
Eh, I’m a physicist at heart. The universe is predictable.
In the case of these kind of discussions ‘pseudo random’ means ‘having the same effect as being random’ (afaik, everything in marvel is actually nonrandom and decision based, you just can’t treat it as if it is sometimes).
Otherwise you get int othe whole ‘its not really random!’ discussion, which is a pain.
Things like Maximum Wesker and TAC’s aren’t random of course, but they might as well be, you have to react to them as if they are.
Had an interesting thought about TAC, the differing bonuses were probably supposed to make it easier to read by the 'its more likely they'll go for x' kind of thing, leading to more reads (the new color flash thing goes to the same end), but in general hitting any of them is enough oif an advantage that it might as well be random.
Unless you're fighting Noah.No, has nothing to do with being an internet tough guy, I just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly before I decided whether or not to disagree with your point. As it’d look silly if I had simply misinterpreted your point altogether.
Suggesting that including “pseudo random” factors mean that a company is drifting away from the fundamentals of what a fighting game should be indicates a rather weak understanding of the genre though, as elements of prediction, anticipation, and weighted rock-paper-scissors style games are probably some of the most fundamental aspects a fighting game has.
Yeah, pretty sure the idea of “weighted rock paper scissors” is the whole concept behind TAC. Which is why the rewards for it are so big.
To be honest though:
I think the only reason people complain about TAC’s pseudo random nature is because it has no graphical frills attached to it. Because no one (generally) complains about any other non-reactable action in the game (or any other fighting game for that matter). Even though many of these other unreactable/pseudo-random events are far less risky for the initiating player, far harder to defend against, and far more rewarding if they succeed.
The difference being that it’s supposed to be counterable, but it’s kind of not due to the 1/3 thing.
I think your definition of “frills” is really off. Is akuma sweeping you taking half a step back and thn doing a light demon flip a frill, or is it a clue as to what he’s doing. With Viper, I snap you in with Dante’s assist ready to go, is this a frill, or am I actively doing something.
There is nothing to TAC, it’s rock paper sissors with no setup, no thought, no nothing. Fighting games do often share alot in common with RPS, but games that actually become RPS are tripe. A good example of how this destroyed a game was with Melee to Brawl, or the original SF3:NG. A good Fighting Game wants to diverge itself from RPS as much as possible and focus on skill, knowledge, reflexes, etc…
Point is, it’s not the lack of frills that’s the problem, its the lack of… anything really.
Oh I know. It’s too strong and probably too easy and too rewarding. It’s certainly a dumb mechanic. But:
My point though is this: if I’m playing as Wolverine (Or magneto, or dante, or phoenix, etc.), I can get in your face, and make you guess that I’m either going to hit you with an instant overhead, a crouching low, or a crossup. You aren’t going to be able to react to any of these. You have to guess based on my positioning what I’m going to do. If you guess right, I immediately go for the high/low again. If you guess wrong, I build two bars of meter and you die. The only real difference between that and TAC is that the above scenario has more pretty lights and graphics attached to it (TAC arguably being a bit easier to predict and safer).
It’s a clue, but you still can’t tell right away whether he’s going left or right. That’s the whole point of the mixup ( or any mixup in general. Otherwise it’s not a mixup ). Regarding the rest of your post, presumably someone in favor of TAC would argue that everything leading up to it was the “setup”, as you had to initiate the combo to begin with, though that’s an issue I agree with you on.
Mind you I’m not saying I like TAC and don’t have some serious issues with how it works in this game (it’s a shitty mechanic), merely from a Triage perspective, I don’t see it being anywhere near the top. It’s like worrying over a stubbed toe when the patient happens to have stage 4 cancer.
I hate tac, but I really love the combo possibilities it brings.
Holy shit, do you know what a sentence is?
Hitstun being reset, without TAC counters, would lead to infinites because characters can TAC in, touch the ground, launch, and TAC again, which lets them go through their full team indefinitely. It would essentially be a “full team infinite”.
I’m not the Marvel police; I didn’t say you can’t hate marvel elements. I just said you shouldn’t hate them cause they’ve been a part of the game since it’s inception. They helped define Marvel as a game it is. That would be like a 3S player who hates parry or a or a Tekken player who hates juggles. It just comes with the game.
I hope that wasn’t direct toward me. I got no complaints when it comes to MVC3’s mechanics. It still feels like Marvel even if it doesn’t play like the previous one.
Do you guys really want a game like SSF4 where every top-tier character is nerfed to “meh” status in an attempt to balance it out? You guys think it’s better to take down a character using two or three hit confirms instead of having the potential to do it with just one? Yea, I don’t like Dante’s 60 sec combos and 40 moves and I don’t like Zero’s crazy good hitboxes and small hurtbox. Dive kicks are annoying too, especially against my team, but I’d rather have my characters equipped with equally dumb stuff to compensate than to have the top tier stuff nerfed. I mean, don’t get me wrong, a lot of the nerfs were justified (Phoenix, hammer, Wolverine I guess, and Phoenix), but do you guys want unblockables, invincible assist, blockstring lockdown, and other dumb stuff gone for the sake of fairness?
But we do know why: