You’re dodging the question
Technically this is a reaction too, cus I only do 236PP in reaction to see the opponent duck
Right?
It’s a reaction but Shiro was not given those kind of warnings that are given in your example. Shiro was presented with crouch MKs into fireball (in previous rounds I suppose) and crouch MK into nothing. EX Rekka wouldn’t have beaten any of them, and Shiro never took the bait. He only did his EX Rekka when a raw fireball was thrown (and at point blank).
In your example, the player would be shown the same counterable string multiple times (with the same movement beforehand, a forward dash), giving him enough time to realize that this is a habit and then to apply a counter to that string when he sees it yet again.
Edit: Veserius, how did you test that exactly? I’m interested in trying that out.
I remember somewhere in the beginning of this thread, someone thought it was a good thing to do to criticize Michael-tan (clearly he didn’t know that this was actually the best Ken player in the world and I honestly consider him a bit better than KichijojiKEN). Nonetheless, new amazing video of him vs. Daigo.
Ok. Emil you win. There’s no Japanese dick big enough for us both
Watching Michael Tan play and how effectively he uses step-kicks and step fakes to close the distance, I feel like putting everyone who asked for Ken’s walkspeed to be increased, in a warehouse and light it ablaze
I’ve seen this type of request before and I think that it stems from people not really understanding what is creating a link in the first place.
Ok you have 3 moves
Move A is a 3F startup and +5F on hit
Move B is a 4F startup and +3F on hit
Move C is a 5F startup and +4F on hit
A links to B as a 2F link and links to C as a 1F link and links to itself as a 3F link
B links to A as a 1F link but can’t link to C
C links to B as a 1F link and to A as a 2F link.
Now let’s take your suggestion. All 1F links become 2F links and all 2F links become 3F links. There is only two ways to accomplish this, either increase the advantage on hit or decrease the startup. So let’s go with increase the advantage on hit because then we don’t have to worry about seeing 2F and 1F normals showing up.
Move A is 3F startup and +6F on hit
Move B is 4F startup andd +4F on hit
Move C is 5F startup and +5F on hit
Now it looks like this
A links to B as a 3F link and links to C as a 2F link and links to itself as a 4F link
B Links to A as a 2F link but can’t link to C
C links to B as a 2F link and to A as a 3F link.
Looks fine, right? Wrong. Now we got new problems:
B Links to B as a 1F link now
C Links to C as a 1F link now
The problem just grows and grows and grows. You can’t simply “make all 1F links 2F and make all 2F links 3F” unless you completely overhaul every characters hit advantage and start up, and even then there is a good chance for a new link to show up that wasn’t there before unless you are extra careful with the frame data.
Plus there’s nothing wrong with plinking, I actually like fighting games having those little “techniques” to be more consistent and a step closer to mastering the game, just like double tapping which exists since God knows when.
And even though I’m a stick user, plinking fierce and roundhouse is piss easy on a DS3 controller, medium attacks are more difficult but if I mained a character who required one and I was a pad user, I’d remap the buttons so it would be comfortable plinking 'em.
Edit: I just realized I posted in This thread, DA FUQ is going here man with the random discussions lol
Most of them “reactions” in fighting games arent true reactions. Its a combination of
reads, game engine guess work etc.
Try a reaction test for yourselves:
My lowest was 235 
played a ryu offline last night. after he kd’d me, i teleported away. got tatsued 90% of the time until i stopped
Dont all decent kens use step kicks and fakes this way? what is michael tan doing diferrently?
Is there an option select for ryu to punish Akuma’s teleport? How do you do it? I haven’t seen Daigo punish teleports this way. If there isn’t you were probably just being too predictable.
So show us. Go into Third Strike OE training mode, stick out 20 Ken low forwards on hit/block random dummy, only cancel on hit, and post the results. Or post video footage of anyone doing it. Not match video footage where you think “that was probably a reaction hit confirm, he’s so great” but actually truly random hit/block.
This is exactly the situation you are talking about. Stick out Ken low forward. buffer super. if you see hit, confirm into super. if not, do nothing. this is a great way to test this argument on reactions because if you don’t consistently hit the 13f cancel window, super doesn’t connect and the CPU dummy blocks. This is a better test than going through Japanese match footage and arguing about whether something was a reaction or read, or what degree of each it was. You set up a 13f situation that can’t be based on a read because it’s a random CPU. Eliminates a variable. On the other side, you are not looking for anything else except block/hit. The dummy won’t parry, it won’t hit buttons. You have complete concentration on only two outcomes. Should be easy if your argument is sound.
If anyone who is posting in this thread can show a video of them doing this, I will eat my hat.
Eh? Hit confirming in Third Strike is a very common thing in high level. Their confirmations aren’t just based on inputting the entire next attack after the normal and it just coming out if they walk into the normal. You should know this, you are a third strike player.
You are providing a completely different scenario…what you are talking about IS a technique that is used, but it’s used for a different situation. What I’m talking about is throwing out pokes IN range, where they are getting blocked (not just whiffing). They only cancel when the attack hits, not when it’s blocked. It’s different than if they are throwing normals out of range and they cancel only when it makes contact (which would only generally happen if they walk/dash into the normal or collide with the opponent’s poke so there’s really only two situations - it whiffs, or it made contact and there’s no decision that needs to be made in this sense since the followup move will only come out on contact).
Edit: In the case of the Momochi video, he was never really making the decision to cancel or not to cancel his crouch LK. He was always going to cancel if he did it. The decision was to do the crouch LK only on reaction to a crouch MK whiff. This is a different situation than if he was throwing out pre-emptive crouch LKs out of range and always inputting the followup attack, so that it will come out if the crouch LK happens to make contact with the opponent.
yes hit confirming is a common thing at high level. however hit confirming Ken’s low forward into super is not a common thing at any level. some people claim to be able to do it but can’t do it in truly hit/block situations, they’re using other cues (so whether they see startup of a move, or they see the opponent’s animation jiggle for standing up) or OS it (whiff and buffer super, or DED and let the meter OS for you).
some of the better 3s players who still post here called it the loch ness monster of the game. it seems related to this discussion, since I believe the original claim that started this argument was that you could beat 12-15f moves on reaction. I am actually genuinely interested in seeing someone do this. 3s is my personal interest but seeing a controlled situation like that in any game and seeing how fast people can truly react. my attitude until someone shows it is “I’ll believe it when I see it.”
to be entirely clear, I am talking about
- set the CPU to random block in training mode
- walk up to any range you want where a low forward would connect (and not whiff)
- super if it hits, do nothing if it doesn’t
this is entirely doable with Chun but I do not believe it is possible with the shotos. shotos have a tighter window (13f I believe) which pushes it out of the realm of possibility. which makes it ideal for testing this discussion because all you have to do is drum the kick buttons as soon as you see or hear the hit.
<Emil> LOOK AT SHIRO’S AMAZING REACTIONS
<People> That wasn’t a reaction, reactions that fast are impossible for a human. Also, Shiro buffered that rekka in anticipation of Daigo pressing a button.
<Emil> No it’s totally reactions you’re just underestimating human ability. That stuff is teh commonz. People totally buffer stuff, confirm it hits and only then press buttons.
<People> Here’s scientific research that says you’re wrong.
<Emil> You’re just underselling nippon masterrace’s abilities.
<Bob> Hey, here’s a chance to prove you’re right: Buffer a move, confirm it hits, press buttons. 13 frame window.
<Emil> I totally wasn’t talking about that but of a completely different thing. Man, why do you keep asking about these other things.
Have a troll flag. I hear they’re tasty.
You want me to watch an hour+ video and catalog everything he got wrong? Are you joking?
The point is the example you are trumping as “knowing what he’s talking about” self admitted he didn’t know, meaning your logic is full of shit.
In the Shiro match, can anyone explain why Daigo throws out a HP dp at the end of round one (1:23 mark)? What was he reacting to?
Or y’know, he simple made a bad read in anticipating a move that never came.
Ya but he was analyzing the match based on the frame data which he does know. Like I said if he got something wrong point it out.
His reaction speed is so good he is reacting to something in the 2nd round!
You think matchups are determined solely by frame data?