The reaction times for humans is 22 frames and above. now there are many factors that help reaction like sounds and button presses, I played a friend that I could slide his sonic booms because I can hear his stick motions. Wiff punishing Ryu crMK on REACTION is near imposible, and even because you have to perceive the motion and press your button on the 9th-19th frame of the attack unless you will eat a counterhit. Players make reasoned guesses and take advantage of habits and tendencies. if you dont believe me go to training mode record Ryu randomly throwing out crMK then punish it on reaction. record a video and post it here.
If reaction is easy then nobody should be hit with overheads
Probably not, everyone has their own play styles. He played Akuma for a while, and it was different but I didn’t see him being as successful as he is with Ryu. Maybe his Yun if he toned down the wakeup dps. He doesn’t go for as many mixups as Kazunoko, but his Yun is still beast. I’m no great player, but I seem to do better with the mid tiers than top, I just can’t play any of them really well, except maybe Cammy and Fei sometimes.
Of course…who doesn’t know that? You can buffer the motion all you want, but the input of the attack button itself is the reaction and only done when needed.
Daigo walked up and did a crouch MK, Shiro didn’t flinch there. Shiro was waiting for the fireball the entire time, not just after the dash up crouch MK. I don’t think EX Rekka would be fast enough to actually hit Ryu out of a crouch MK, and Daigo can react with dp.
No…it’s a read that helps you to react.
I question your ability to play fighters at a decent level if you are not reacting in these kind of situations.
No it’s not, it was already stated in this thread…it depends how you are thinking about it. If you’ve put your opponent into a situation where you KNOW that you only need to look out for say, 2 options (or better yet, just 1 option), then it becomes a simplistic case…in the example of Shiro vs. Daigo, Shiro decided that he was only going to look for one thing and that was the fireball animation.
Eh not really…people get hit by overheads because there are many things to expect on wakeup and overhead is generally one of the last things to be looking out for (depending on situation I suppose) because of the low damage it does. Most players sort of forget about the existence of the overhead until their life is low enough that it will kill them.
…first of all, the solar plexus is two hits and secondly, Shiro might not have been looking for solar plexus.
Fireball or not fireball still requires you to process the information - you need to identify the fireball animation. It is most definitely slower than the speed of “did he twitch at all” => Do stuff, which is what the research cited by LoyalSol calls a simple reaction, and what is 11 frames or so. Faster than trying to answer something like Akuma’s vortex on reaction, sure, because the analysis is much more rudimentary and clear, but still slower than simple reactions. Intending to respond only to fireballs has nothing to do with it.
The fact that Solar Plexus Strike breaks armor is wholly irrelevant (and even then, it only breaks armor on the 19th frame). The relevant thing is that if you have those magical 10 frame reactions, you could trivially EX Tornado it (you have a 7 frame window to start the Tornado, lots more than Shiro had had he supposedly reacted to Daigo throwing a fireball) Hell, you have a window to beat it with Abel’s abjectly shitty 5 frame crouching jab.
I’m crouching a bit away from the opponent
My opponent dashes, then c.MK xx Hados
Bit later in the match -
I’m crouching a bit away from the opponent
My opponent dashes, then c.MK xx Hados
Bit later in the match -
I’m crouching a bit away from the opponent, spamming 232323232323232323
My opponent dashes, then twitches
I do 236PPP and Ultra his c.MK
You don’t seem to get this. He immediately completed the motion. Even at a 10 frame reaction time you wouldn’t see him doing anything at all at frame 5 of the fireball! That’s not how reactions work.
He was committing to the armored Rekka weather he saw the fireball or not. Which means he knew before it was thrown that it was coming.
No, Daigo did dash up c.MK and Shiro saw it. Daigo did a dash up again and Shiro banked on him doing something again. Hell we don’t know if Shiro picked up on that from previous games.
It’s not a reaction when you input the motion long before you could physically react to it.
No this isn’t how it works.
They did a study where subjects were given two possible outcomes. They had to press the letter A or letter X depending on what appeared on the screen. Even when it was made that they would only react to the X and not the A it would still take an additional 80ms over the simple reaction speed. Because even in this type of reaction, you still have to identify that something is not a fireball.
Even if you are only looking for one stimulus (IE a fireball) if you have to make the distinction between a fireball and a NOT-Fireball that’s still a choice reaction and still takes far more than the normal simple reaction time.
A simple reaction time is not present anywhere in fighting games. So just stop.
You know, I remember specifically when you said Gouken’s counter move is not “random guesswork”, that predicting a players movements and patterns make it not a guess when discussing a moves impact on a matchup.
So what is this, exactly?
Please, let me know the difference guesswork and “random guesswork”
Twitch reactions to anything at all are a thing, though really baitable. I guess you could make something more simple reaction-y by paying attention to the opponent’s meter, but the situations where that isn’t horribly risky are kind of rare.
agreeing with loyalsol in general, but if you key in on certain things you can react pretty quickly especially if the animation is super obvious.
The lower numbers are against milia’s instant overhead which turns her into a moon, and the higher numbers are against her flippy overhead which is grounded and looks a bit like one of her lows in the first few frames.
I think all 1 frame links should be made into 2 frame links, and all 2 frame links into 3 framers and so on. Capcom should also take away the plinking mechanic, it’s just stupid and is only properly usable for those on stick. Also because combos will be easier with these changes they should reduce the amount of damage combos do across the board. As in they could reduce combo damage for all characters by like 15%. This makes up for the fact that all links are easier.
I’m watching Arturo’s video now. Look at all the options Akuma has once he knocks down Ryu. Yes Im an “09er” but I still understand how crucial getting a knockdown is in this game. What can Ryu do to Akuma when he knocks him down besides watching him safely teleport away. Before you say " but he can punish with ultra!" remember what happened to Daigo once Infiltration caught on to that its a HUGE gamble not even worth it. Arturo even said Infiltration is just trying to get that sweep and this dude is saying the sweep (its not just the sweep its that coupled with the faster walk speed too!) doesn’t dominate the match lol. Sorry but I think Arturo who is an actual pro knows what he’s talking about.
Arturo admits in that video (around 3 minute mark) that he doesn’t know the matchup between Akuma and Ryu and thus has no authority concerning the matchup. So the pro himself admits he doesn’t know what he’s talking about in that matchup.
Even among top pros there is quite a bit of differences of opinion in terms of match ups. Ultimately there is always going to be some subjective component.
As for why to play Ryu over Akuma…I don’t know. Akuma is way more fun.
Except that’s not what happened and your example is not analogous to the one I presented, at all.
Again, why are you mentioning this? Are you even reading what I’m saying? I’m not arguing with the above, I know he is buffering.
Yes it is. He is looking for something and knows what to react with. He inputs part of the motion(well, the full motion, except the button). He presses the button only when his mind has confirmed that it is a fireball and not something else. This is reaction.
It’s obviously not the same situation as this one. In this situation, you are looking for one outcome. You are not making multiple choices based on different outcomes. You either do nothing if it’s not a fireball, or something (press the attack button) if it was a fireball. This is not the same thing as pressing A in one situation and X in another. Your situation is equivalent to a situation where Shiro would have to say, backdash if he saw a crouch MK and EX rekka if he saw a fireball.
You need to work on your reactions.
They were absolutely on reaction…he didn’t do those pokes pre-emptively except one time (and I don’t think he was looking for a crouch MK that time). So either his predictions were 100% accurate and XSK was read like a book, or Momochi knew what he was looking for and reacted the moment he saw it.
