Street Fighter hipsters.
Kiryu retired
No love for Ver Gouken? Also one thing I’d like to see people do vs. Veloc1raptor (and other goukens)is actually punishing ex demonflip. He loves to wakeup with it and people just let him do it. A lot of characters can walk under and do a full punish combo, but people don’t for whatever reason. Gouken has pretty weak wakeup, but all American Gouken players I’ve seen are always hitting buttons on wakeup when it’s actually possible to beat all of his options with a lot of character. It’s really hard for me to judge player skill when people are getting away with murder because of general lack of character knowledge.
I stayed up to watch it live. Valle is good, no doubt, and still one of the best Ryus. Just not on par with Daigo anymore. Could be if he took the game up seriously, probably. But not in current form.
I think you missed my point.
I am not arguing whether Xian, Poongko, or Gamerbee are better or worse than top level American players.
I am saying that you are using a proxy (Xian/Poongko/Gamerbee) against the Japanese players to ascertain how well your core sample (American players) would fair against those Japanese players BECAUSE the proxy has played long continuous sets against these players while the core sample has not and you deem that Tournament Results are not representative of skill differential, but only extended league play can truly determine who the better player is.
However, the problem with this is you are using yet another proxy between your core sample (American players) and your first proxy (Xian/Poongko/Gamerbee), only this time, your only argument is the very same one that your first proxy attempted to disprove, Tournament Results.
Your logical argument as presented reads:
->Japan has better players than USA regardless of tournament results because tournament results are not an accurate representation of skill. League play with extended sets is much more representative.
–> Xian, Poongko, Gamerbee went to Japan and got destroyed in League play of this format, showing that they are not as good as the Japanese players in the League
—>We can argue that Xian, Poongko, Gamerbee are at least as good if not better than American players based on their tournament results.
---->Ergo, American players are not as good as Japanese players and would also be destroyed in league play.
Regardless of whether or not I agree with your conclusion, the sequence of your premises are contradictory and constitute what is essentially a false analogy comparison.
You can’t selectively say that tournament results should matter when comparing A and B, but not A and C, or B and C.
Edit: I am also uncertain why you’re linking an individual tournament result to me and what exactly you’re trying to prove.
It’s like me linking the results for Evo 2012 and going “look Xian’s not even here, and PR Rog is ahead of both Poongko and Xiao Hai”
I mean, there’s only a single JP player in the Top 10 for Evo, but we know that a few of them are just on the cusp and had a few rounds gone differently (not even matches, just rounds), they could’ve had 3-4 people in the top 10 easily, but again, that’s just one tournament and (according to you), you can’t even determine relative skill from a long series of tournaments much less one individual showing.
We also know that large tournaments like Evo and SS have absolutely brutal brackets, Poongko went from winning SS 2011 to not even placing top 15 for SS 2012, hell, none of the top 15 for SS 2011 reprised their performances in 2012 except Gamerbee and Tokido.
I mean, what are we trying to prove, that Eita won SS 2012 but then got completely destroyed in Topanga A? What exactly does that demonstrate?
Hi , I said I was done like a page a go . I’m honestly done, I’m not bothered anymore. Wasted way too much time on this.
EX Fireball / Solar Plexus does the job. He can also do raw crouching medium kick and buffer a shoryuken in (Daigo certainly has the execution and reactions for it). You haven’t accounted for my previous statement when I said that AKuma can only really get an actual vortex going off a throw in the corner.
Teleport is in fact one of the dumb parts about the matchup. But hey, it pushes you into the corner. This matchup is driven on punishing mistakes and space control, so it’s still something. I do think that teleport should be toned down for the next update haha.
If they do what they did with his teleport in the 2013 SFxT update then it will be even worse than Evil Ryus teleport at the moment lol
All Yossan (assuming that’s your second Y) does is getting beat silly and then running XFactor Style FSE comebacks
Where’s Waike/Waikee on your list?
And how do you explain this if Latif isn’t on their level? http://kyosuke.kun.free.fr/Ranking/index.php?fighter=viper
Took him one 2-week(?)-trip to Japan to get into the Top10 Viper Arcade Rankings with the 3rd highest Win%
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/sep/26/famitsu-interviews-fuudo-over-wide-range-topics/ Fuudo stating Latif is the strongest Viper (but I guess he only said that to make the the huge amount of US based Famitsu readers happy?)
…still waiting for someone to explain how I can vortex Ryu. I will pay you to write an article about it, lol…
You spam sweep, of course.
Since “Vortex” means that you have to keep on knocking down your opponent and apply mixups on them all day long, it doesn’t work well on Ryu because he can’t be tatsu swept.
If you’re only talking about applying wakeup pressure vs his SRK, it’s not hard at all as Akuma who can stuff it or make it whiff for a huge punish. SRKs are far from being a vortex killer against Akuma like Blanka’s ex upball for example.
You can do jab sweep combos on ryu, or ex fireball, and still negate his wakeup options.
You cant stuff MP and HP SRKs, which any Ryu in their right minds would go to as a wakeup reversal, because they are, you know, invincible from frame 1
Vortexing Ryu is not the same as vortexing the rest of the cast, because safejumps and stuffing reversals are simply out of the picture, and you are left with gimmicky setups which requires your opponent to not know about said setups. You can actually safejump Blanka’s EX upball, just as how you can safejump stuff like Guy’s EX tatsu and Cammy’s cannon spike or whatever the fuck that derpy ass move is called
Infiltration beat Daigo not because of character, but simply because he is a better player right now. Just how Sako didnt beat Poongkos seth with Evil Ryu because Evil Ryu is so gdlk in this game, but because Sako is simply better than Poongko right now.
Dive kicks are laughing at you right now.
Banned like in ST?
I don’t main akuma, but I’ve played him a bit here and there, you can definitely cause mp/hp srk’s to whiff, and they are also stuffable as well.
demonflip divekick and the normal jump divekick can both accomplish this, and there are some other setups that will also cause whiffs.
And here you are claiming you know how the Japanese are superior and still make claims like this? Akuma’s sweep has 24 frames of recovery and it’s -9 on block. Now Ryu has a 5-frame sweep with great range and the best start-up for a sweep in the entire game, which makes it essentially a move that whiff-punishes almost everything.
Tell me how Ryu can’t whiff-punish it. Just because Daigo chooses not to do it doesn’t mean he can’t. He’s just mindfucked to hell when he plays Infiltration.
Ok first of all you listed generic “What Akuma has” instead of “how does this play into the match up”. Usually the minute someone gives me a generic list of what a character has it immediately tells me they know very little about the match up. It isn’t about what a character has it is what a character has that the other has no answer for or equivalent situation. The Ryu Akuma match up doesn’t have much of these.
First of all the airfireballs don’t even do a ton in the match up. Ryu has answers for all of the common application outside of full screen chucking which isn’t the worst place anyways. Ryu doesn’t get outzoned by airfireballs so this point is bad. When Akuma is using the air fireballs Ryu is never at a true disadvantage. In fact when it comes to the fireball game Akuma plays to Ryu’s game not the other way around.
Second you fail to notice that Ryu has a faster ground fireball and better comboability with his fireball which is more key to this kind of match up.
And lastly I suggest you go back and actually watch the 25th. Daigo wasn’t getting vortexed. He took most of his damage off normal situations. Infiltration primarily used safe pressure and got damage off of good reads WHICH IS NOT THE VORTEX. People are so bad at actually identifying what is and isn’t the vortex any more.
In fact the mix up game against Ryu is very very basic outside of the corner. It isn’t this dozen option mix up and if Akuma gets any significant damage off of it Ryu no longer has to guess because Akuma can’t tatsu sweep. So the only way to keep Ryu in the Vortex is to go for less than optimal damage or burn large amounts of meter. Neither of which are the most practical.
And while Akuma has some mix ups he can use, Ryu can land pretty damaging hits in the neutral game that Akuma can’t. Between forward HP and all the Ultra possibility Ryu’s advantage which matches the vortex is the ability to combo into Ultra. Not to mention Ryu’s super is actually massively dangerous
Sorry c.MK is a button Akuma has to respect because it leads to large amounts of damage. You can’t throw out the sweep at the same time as c.MK is active because c.MK wins. The sweep is a counter poke in this match up, in it
Both character play in the same range and Akuma has the sweep, but Ryu has the ability to take hits into combos from fairly far out.
You whiff punish sweeps free. Akuma’s sweep more so than Ryu’s because it retracts slower. But punishing sweeps on block is hard because of the pushback. I did some rudimentary training mode testing, and it is doable, but the timing is pretty tight. Felt just a smidge easier to do it as Akuma to Ryu than the reverse. I could just suck at labmonstering, which I probably do, but eh.
I can make them whiff easily, but I could never stuff the non lp versions… how exactly do you guys set this up off a sweep/forward throw for example? far hk, hk flip divekick gets DPd, dash hkflip divekick gets dpd, dash dash d+mk divekick gets dpd… whatever I tried so far gets DPd by the non LP versions, and all of these setups stuff the LP version
Guess I just need to go practice in the lab some more…