I think there are 37 characters an Akuma would rather play against before Yun.
It is 5-5, Infiltration is a better player.
Who uses Ryu?
Daigo
Dakuo
Sekiganryu
Laugh
Infiltration
XSK Samurai
Air Ryu
Alex Valle
You can probably take out Infiltration from that list if you want, but I would say his Ryu is probably better than half of the list. Infiltration made Ricky Ortiz (who beat Daigo at CEO) look absolutely free at Final Round using Ryu.
Most of the players on that list do not qualify as good enough players. Lol I was expecting…almost waiting, for someone to mention XSK Samurai, Laugh and Alex Valle. My list of really strong players who use Ryu is:
Daigo
Dakou
Sekiganryu
Naruo(on occasion)
Togawa
And similarly, Eita beat Kazunoko free using Akuma (who beat Infiltration free at Canada Cup).
You have the wrong name in quotes and Kazunoko beat Eita
at 28:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNS-34zgd1k
Ok, I’m done feeding the troll. He’s been here for 8 years and he’s posting like someone that showed up last month and is still stuck in 2010.
Wow, what a condescending dickbag.
Well do me a favor and name what it is about the match up that makes it so bad for Ryu.
Players beating players doesn’t mean anything unless you take a large statistical set which 2 games is far from that. You need at least 30 matches before you can get a statistical convergence.
This isnt the set I was referring to but in the one you linked, Eita beat Kazunoko “free” in the first two matches, and using the train of thought I see often displayed here, those two matches would be the only ones that matter in a best of 3 set. Either way I didn’t look through this set because you had to look through the video to find the matches.
What, you’re going to tell me the players you listed are remotely on the level of the ones I did? If you actually think this, you are really new to this scene and probably just watch American streams.
This argument is like arguing about whether find ten grand in a bag or ten grand and a quarter is better. They’re all great players.
Emil=Japanophile
I’m going to give you people another reality check…a list of the top players of all characters.
Ryu: Daigo(JPN), Togawa(JPN) (but Daigo is better than him)
Seth: Dashio(JPN) is on a higher level than Poongko
Rose: Kawaguuchi(JPN) (no, not Filipinoman, not Sabin, not Gootecks lol)…honorable mention to Luffy(FR)
Yang: Nemo(JPN), Ojisanboy(JPN), Kyoku(JPN)
Ken: Michael-tan(JPN), KichijojiKEN(JPN), Momochi(JPN)
Yun: Kazunoko(JPN), Daigo(JPN), Momochi(JPN)
Akuma: Eita(JPN), -6(JPN), Tokido(JPN), Infiltration(KOR)
Guile: hint, it’s actually not Dieminion…it’s actually Yazu(JPN)
Adon: Gamerbee(TW), EX Mamehara(JPN)
Juri: no, it’s not WeirdoNeo, lol…it’s Younashi(JPN), SHIN and another player starting with Y that I can’t recall atm who uses Ino in GG
Fei-Long: Fuudo(JPN), Mago(JPN), Machaboo(JPN)
Cammy: Y.(JPN), Sako(JPN), Banbaban(JPN)
Evil Ryu: Sako(JPN), Naruo(JPN)
Gen: The hype of Amiyu(JPN) died after Shadowloo Showdown because he didn’t attend another popular tourney since…Amiyu has been better than ever, beyond Xian, though Xian is still really good and is worth mentioning
Honda: Akimo(JPN), nobody else belongs on this list, not Cuongster, Mike Ross or whoever
Makoto: Haitani(JPN), Shiro(JPN) and possibly Duke(JPN), no one else belongs on this list
Blanka: Mizoteru(JPN), Nishiken(JPN), Taku(JPN), TSRAI(JPN)
Chun-Li: Vivi(JPN), Y24(JPN)
Hakan: Ebi(JPN)
Oni: Wao(JPN)
Cody: Momochi(JPN), Sasaki(JPN)
Gief: Cantona(JPN), Itabashi(JPN), Zangitan(JPN), honorable mention to Snakeyes but he isn’t quite on their level yet. Vangief is not on the level
Dudley: Kuroken(JPN)
Rufus: It’s actually not Wong or Ricky, it’s still MDR(JPN). His playstyle is very different and his level of mindfuck is way beyond what Ricky or Wong can do with him. Kindevu(JPN) is also still on a higher level
Boxer: -R(JPN), Maeda Taison(JPN, though he doesn’t play anymore), honorable mention to PR Rog
Dictator: Dogura(JPN), Shungoku Neurosis(JPN), no one else belongs on this list
Sagat: Bonchan(JPN), Gachi-kun(JPN), I don’t think anyone else really belongs at this level, not even Ryan Hart…but I like what Sanford has been doing lately
Dhalsim: no, it’s not FChamp or Sabin lol, it’s actually YHCMochi(JPN) and Darui(JPN) and pretty much by a longshot
Sakura: Juso(JPN), URyo(JPN)
Viper: it’s actually not Wolfkrone or even Latif…it’s dath(JPN), Dashio(JPN), URyo(JPN) and probably even Kindevu(JPN) and he doesn’t even play her much anymore. The problem is that wolfkrone and latif don’t have the strong mental game with Viper that these JPN players do
Abel: Nekojita(JPN), Ojisanboy(JPN)
Deejay: Akimo(JPN)
Anyway, get educated on these names, it’s clear most people don’t know wtf is going on outside the US…and the list is actually far bigger than this, it’s just a lot of names to list and some of them don’t remember exactly.
lol it’s this cool little circular logic thing you can find yourself in
the best players are the Japanese
you prove yourself by going to Japan and beating the Japanese consistently
only the Japanese play a lot in Japan
the Japanese are even better than I thought they were!
the Japanese are the best. how do I know? they beat the Japanese. gg
At some point you have to accept that a player is good enough for his results to matter. If you say only the top 5 guys have merit, where does it end? Why not the top 3? Top 1? Sure, in theory, with perfect play by both sides, you can distill every matchup to 10-0 in someone’s favor and you’ve “solved” Street Fighter. Congratulations, but that’s not real life. Real players make mistakes, real players have flaws, and so you need to assess the practical difficulty of a matchup between two equivalent, but strong, players. Is Daigo better than Valle? Yes, but they’re both incredibly good. Everyone on that list is good enough to provide accurate results for a practical tier list.
Akuma is a better version of Ryu. He has air fireballs, teleport, faster walk speed, and that sweep. Once he sweeps Ryu he has some crazy ass mixups and resets. In that 25th anniversary set Daigo had the life lead in several rounds only to lose when he go swept one time. How can you say this is 5-5 what does Ryu have over Akuma besides slightly more health?
Ryus grounded and air normals all feel better to me except for the sweep and far hk Akuma has
He also has more health
His ground fireball also feels like its better for some reason, and his invincible reversals dont give the opponent a full punish if they hit the opponent at max range (if there is one buff Akuma deserves coupled with the inevitable nerf storm its to fix that whole ‘first hit doesnt juggle’ from his SRKs)
Akuma has an air fireball, teleport, red fireball, demon flip, dive kick, and his far hk and sweep to make up for his lesser health/stun and whatever else I listed above. I feel like Akuma has a slight advantage in the matchup, but its definitely not a 6-4, more like a 5.5-4.5, but it may even be a 5-5
Akuma can punish many things with sweep, including Ryu’s own sweep, but Ryu can’t do this back to him (Akuma’s sweep can only be punished by Ryu’s super I believe). Akuma’s sweep, leading to vortex, is one of the biggest things that make this a hard matchup for Ryu.
I disagree completely with SnakeEyez not being on the japanese’s level. Cantona and SnakeEyez are on another level of Zangief play, Hagejin and Itabashi are just below them and Zangitan is below them.
To think that Latif, Wolfkrone, Justin, Ricky and PR Rog aren’t the best with their characters is absolutely crazy.
I actually agree that Itabashi has dropped a bit…he is probably lower than Cantona but I don’t think Snakeyez is above him. I disagree with Zangitan. Snakeyez isn’t yet on this level but he is getting them, that’s why I said he’s an honorable mention…I mean he’s still really good, my list isn’t seperating the good from the bad, it’s seperating the masters from the really good.
Well first off, I think Latif > Wolfkrone and Wolfkrone has fallen off lately. If any Viper might be on Jap level, it is Latif but I’m not sure if it is. My mention of Kindevu is based on Kindevu’s Viper from way back and just the fact that Kindevu is a crazy good player that is able to learn extremely fast. I think URyo and dath’s Viper > Kindevu’s though, and Kindevu’s Viper may or may not be be as good as Latif’s (but Kindevu is definitely a better player than Latif). URyo’s Viper is actually incredibly strong, despite not using it. Like in the match when I saw him use Viper against Dieminion, I was kind of blown away at the obvious difference between his Viper and Wolfkrone/Latif’s. It was just a much better movement and control of trajectories and just better understanding of knowing when to do what.
As for Justin and Ricky…they have become so popular that I think people have just assumed them to be THE Rufus players, but have really forgotten about MDR who I’d say is the god of Rufus. PR Rog, I actually think he might be better than -R in some ways (I think PR Rog’s use of jabs and tick throws is really dangerous and hit confirmations solid) but not in others. PR Rog might be the closest American player to having a character that is equal to the best player for that character.
The reason they feel better is that many of them are - the cr.mk lingers and cr.mk xx fireball can be a true blockstring, Akuma’s air normals except jab and short have about 3 active frames*, Ryu’s have a ton. Ryu also has j.mp which has a huge upwards-angled hitbox for the second hit - all the other forward jumping shoto buttons are angled downwards. Ryu’s st.hp has hitbox all over the arm instead of just about the hand. His cl.hp has more reach and forces stand so you don’t have to care about the opponent crouching as much. Ryu’s st.lk is actually useful as an anti-air check (5 start, 6 active, 6 recovery, 16 total, disjointed hitbox at the top), while Akuma’s is pitiful for that purpose (3 start, 2 active, 8 recovery, 12 total, disjointed hitbox extends to the front instead of above), though it deals good hitstun and is easily linkable and thus is better as a combo tool.
The fireball isn’t really outright better apart from the high damage which is really sweet against Akuma (Ryuball vs. Air fireball trade? Yes please), but it comes out faster, so it feels a bit more authoritative in combination with the shout, and can be used as a long range footsie tool better. In return, it’s worse at the edge of the opponent’s jump arc because it has more recovery and total duration.
What the matchup’s score is depends a lot on the level of play, IMHO. At the lower levels I’d say it’s probably in Ryu’s favour, but evens out the higher you go. At the absolute top I’d probably go with 5-5 or perhaps 5.5-4.5 for Akuma on account of Akuma’s standard footsie poke having longer reach. Ryu has to actively contest it or Akuma can just abuse the range disparity and win footsies for free. Active sweeps and a tight close-range fireball game are key, IMHO.
*Seriously, go check it out if you want to cry or laugh spitefully at Akuma players. The active framecounts are a joke.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Ryu
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Akuma
Characters dont matter when it comes to being the best, like combofiend for example (although he isnt as good, he is one of the best players in the world in my opinion). Combo plays Makoto, Oni, and Guy. Guy is a great character but even back in super where Guy was ass, he was still workin fools! Moral of the story, top tier doesnt win tournaments ( even though it sure seems like it since every one only picks the same 10 characters).
So Daigo doesnt need to play top tier to be godlike, because he already is! Infiltration probably just feels comfortable with Akuma, as well as his other pocket characters.
If people just picked characters they liked, and put in the work, tournaments would be so much more entertaining. Like the vega player who got top 8 in canada cup, that shit made me hype!
Also lets take in consideration that marvel is the same way, because people like OMG ITZ ANDRE, and Cj the Showstopper, use higher tier characters even though they dont normally do well in tournaments, although Cj did do good at ECT.
LoyalSol is going to laugh you out of the room for that. Just FYI.
Thing is, I feel that by your definition SnakeEyez is a master, he’s amazingly good and knows the intrincancies of Zangief inside out, you only need to see his match vs Momochi at the 25th anniversary to understand that he is on their level. Cantona is absolutely crazy, I wouldn’t dare to say that he’s below SnakeEyez (but not above, or not by much either), Itabashi has clearly dropped the ball a bit, maybe he’s just focusing a lot on Soul Calibur, who knows, but he seems to have dropped the ball after DRS Chris took him out from EVO. Revisiting my previous post I have to say that Hagejin should be in Cantona’s level too, that man is absolutely crazy and clearly knows his stuff on an amazing level. Akahossy and Pantyjones are honorable mentions in my book, along with Carlos on XBL.
Kindevu is an amazing player, I agree, I actually believe he should be the 6th god, but I don’t think his Viper is as good as Latif’s, Dath’s isn’t either in my opinion, he seems to be too eager to mixup his opponent and get the round in two combos instead of picking his spots to Seismo and force the player to get into a bad position. If anything, Kyabetsu would fit your statement more, and I don’t think he’s a bad player by any means, but I would say that Latif is the better Viper for sure. I do find it interesting to see that you rate Uryo’s Viper that high when Dieminion did decimate his offence on their match at EVO and that you don’t rate Dieminion very highly (personally I do believe he’s either the best or 2nd best Guile in the world), it was 2/3, sure, but that was a great display on what to do vs Viper with Guile
About MDR: He’s really good, crazy good, and clearly knows pretty much everything about the character, but I feel that Wong and Ricky know all of that too, and I also feel that they have more experience and are overall better players than him.