I’m not sure if you’re thinking that anyone suggested Ryan is miles better than Mago?
The case is “He can hang with him, they are about similar level”.
Which you like, delivered proof for
You’re only as good as something if you are far better.
Hi bob, I love you too.
Can you clarify what evidence doesn’t support my case? I haven’t seen any. All I’ve seen is people taking a few examples of jp players losing to us players in tournaments. I have agreed with that and said that overall the jp have won more games than they’ve lost against top us guys and they have better tournament results . I provided the proof. What is the big mystery or is it really that hard to accept?
Are you all that soft , that a heated debate makes you want to kill yourself? Cool the jets buddy. Argument is healthy. At the end of the day I love to watch the US players and hope they do well. It’s nothing personal but I think people are letting their emotions get in the way here.
@Shinebox
so a ft5 is a “long” set but not ft4 . Hmmm. I never claimed any of them were long sets. I posted them in order to show that giving one match’s results doesn’t put things into context. And for the record , I consider ft7 a “long” set. Ft5 is still not that much at all.
Of course not. I was putting things into perspective. It’s nothing to do with ryan or mago. It’s the general case of posting one match/set and not giving the full story. 5-1 paints a different picture than 12-11. He took a jp player and showed them losing a set quite convincingly to a NON us player. I have never claimed the jp are that much better. Tournament results over the last 4-5 years tells us that they are.
Maybe try using the teleport very sparingly and only use air fireballs when you are sure you won’t be punished. It’s not as if akuma doesn’t have many other tools to compete with.
8-2 lol kazunoko. Smokin that tumbleweed. I did say that I thought it was possibly as worse as 6.5/3.5. 7/3 is not that far away. Akuma will never ever have a matchup worse than 7-3 in this game. They would have to remove a limb or some shit . I will go with 7-3 since you guys are the experts.Couple of yun/akuma matchups from AE for your consideration. Doesn’t look as bad as people make it out to be. Both top 5 yun and akumas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFhHY0keCOo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJjPv4XN9Sc
I’m done . Apologies to anyone I pi**ed off along the way. I stand by what I have said though. Best of luck gentlemen.
…I agree.
First of all I get tired of is people posting up videos where some character wins and says “Oh doesn’t look so bad.” without even bothering to look at the context of what actually is going on in the match. Yea you can find one or two where Akuma wins by overcoming the match up, but that doesn’t mean it is a good match up overall.
Second Tokido himself has said the match up is miserable. It’s actually in the Tokido Formula video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX_KrLUcBwU
Isn’t 8-2 virtually unwinnable? As miserable as some matches are in ver 2012, there is nothing considered worse than 7-3 and even that is fairly rare. Anyways didn’t play the game back then, just throwing that out there.
Blanka vs T.Hawk if definitive a 8-2. Then you also got matchups like Guile vs Dictator, Sagat vs Zangief, which are going into this direction and do not forget Hakan vs Dhalsim.
there are a lot of matches worse than 7-3, people just don’t like to throw out hard matchup numbers in sf4 for some reason. People are relatively conservative with stuff.
Just from my character, my opinions
Blanka vs. Hawk 8-2(or better)
Blanka vs. Deejay 7.5-2.5
Blanka vs. Gouken 7-3
Blanka vs. Dan 7-3
Cammy vs. Blanka 2.5-7.5(or worse)
Honda vs. Blanka 3-7(or worse)
Seth vs. Blanka 3-7
Abel vs. Blanka 3-7
Guy vs. Blanka 3-7
1/4 of the matchups for my character are 7-3 or better in one character’s favor. I don’t know if I’d call that fairy rare, but I admit Blanka’s character design is structured in such a way that he is going to have imbalanced matchups like sim or grapplers.
Christ Blanka vs. Dan gives me nightmares
The focus of this thread that drifted off…but it’s not actually my fault for that happening. I apparently touched some nerves when I tried to explain the overwhelmingly obvious reason why a tournament like Evo should not be considered the highest level tournament, and this ended up turning into a “is US on the level of Japan” argument.
The bottom line was this - all the tournaments that Infiltration has been winning, were in the US. Almost all US tournaments are extremely absent of the top international play. Yes, he beat some Japanese at some of the tournaments, but he also got blown up by some of them in other tournaments, like Canada Cup (he also lost to Tokido in Taiwan but I wouldn’t call that one a blowup). Because tournaments like Evo are absent of the large concentration of top players, his results aren’t enough to throw around the “best in the world” title. You can use his actual skill in the matches themselves (rather than the result of the matches) to make a case, but it would be pretty hard to do considering the large quantity of top Japanese players that you can use to make the same kind of case.
My other problem was the ignorance of how many of these grandmaster players exist. It’s not 20 (20 is probably how many have ever traveled to the US). It’s more like, well over 100+. These “grandmaster” players all have the ability to win Evo if they joined.
Edit: Daigo is definitely disadvantaged in the matchup when using Ryu. He has to continuously make good reads and he can’t throw out a lot of things as safely as Akuma can. I think Daigo is definitely the stronger player, but it’s an uphill battle. When Daigo makes all the correct reads, you get the 3-0 blowup of Daigo over Infiltration at 25th anniversary winners finals. Otherwise you might get the reverse.
Frankly while I don’t disagree that Yun vs Akuma is def Akuma’s worst matchup. I can’t see how in AE it was 8-2 or 7-3 or how now it is 6.5-3.5 yet the Cody - Cammy matchup in 2012 is claimed to be 6-4 for Cammy or how it wasn’t ever considered to be 8-2 for Yun - Cody in AE or how Makoto didn’t have a single matchup in Super considered worse than 4-6 (of course she had almost matchups BETTER than 4-6 either lol.)
Hell wasn’t Yun - Sim a 7.5-3.5 matchup in AE? I def don’t see Akuma - Yun being equal to Yun - Sim.
Either ALL of those matches are severely under rated (quite possible actually.) or the Akuma - Yun matchup is inflated.
IMO SF4’s matchups are not as clean as community tier lists suggest. you see no worse than 6-4 across the board. I don’t think think that’s accurate. a more general statement such as “SF4 has a large variety of viable characters” I think that’s a lot more believable.
I won’t get too far into the reasons I think everyone is conservative with matchup numbers though I suspect wanting to be compared favorably to less balanced good games in the series (ST, 3s) may be a factor. maybe unconciously, even.
No one in this thread has said current Akuma-Yun is 6.5 for Yun. All the discussion has been about how bad the matchup was in 2011 and lulz at the idea AE Yun vs. Akuma is somehow valid but Ryu vs. Akuma in 2012 isn’t as much.
Nonsense, the matchup is 5/5. Daigo has destroyed pretty much every Akuma he ever played before Infiltration.
Infiltration is simply a better player.
What exactly are the qualifications for being a “grandmaster” player? The arcade BP system? Because I could extrapolate my online win rate and probably land there myself easily.
Except their BP ranking is based on continuously fighting players of the highest level. Are your online win rates based on this? No. Anyway, their BP ranking is usually a consequence of them being a grandmaster player, but not always…some of them don’t play enough to get that ranking, or they are fighting far too many players on their same level.
How is the matchup 5:5? I haven’t seen anyone yet think this isn’t a one sided matchup. Also, how many people now really play Ryu? He is just obselete, most of the Ryu players have jumped ship. Daigo has stayed because he plays with a different purpose.
Well I’ll ask again; what are the qualifications to be a “grandmaster”? That’s an incredibly nebulous term.