Even worse. Some of us don’t have the luxury of relying on others to provide for food and housing.
If it’s anything like EG, it usually means they just pay for transportation, and maybe the hotel. I doubt the players get paid unless they are like the best on their team, and even then I doubt it’s a notable wage.
SC1 Korean pros used to train like upwards of 12+ hours a day, 5 days a week. If you get paid six figures to do what you love, I’m sure you can make it happen.
I need more training with just general strategy really… I can usually get people if I sit and wait for an error, but guessing or trying to bait out a move screws me up for the whole game. For example, I wait for an opening with one Akuma, and completely destroy his ass (saying there’s no lag), but when I try guessing or anything, I always get raped.
Ideally you should make as little ‘guesses’ as possible. Although sometimes a good read can pay off, you’ll win more matches just by playing solid. If you can show Akuma that he can’t just fly around throwing fireballs, and that you can effectively stop his jump ins and fireball game, you’ve won half the match. He’s forced to slow down his playstyle and play into your gameplan.
Haha that stuff is so true. When I do just that, I’m good, but sometimes I get too confident try things that the opponent will actually mash reversal on.
My rule is “if it works…and continues to work…why stop?” Why bother mixing up your attacks if he can’t figure out how to beat it in the first place? I usually start off my offense with a simple vortex, and if the other guy can’t figure out how to get out of it, I keep doing it til he’s KO and sending me hate mail. If he actually knows how to get around then, THEN i start doing smart stuff with safe jumps, blockstrings, frame traps, etc etc. Also if you think the other guy is mashing a reversal, just stop your attack strings at that point and just punish it. Against stupid players, aka level D flowchart kens, this is all you need to do to win. Against someone smarter, they’ll probably stop mashing uppercuts, and you’re free to do all the attack strings, frame traps, and kara-throws you want.
You just need to know one safe jump/safe kunai which will stuff reversal DP to perfect all flowchart shotos in this world
You still have to have airtight blockstrings, not drop any combos, and only leave gaps on purpose as bait. Your “safe kunai” won’t be very safe if they somehow block it and you don’t have enough frame advantage to be safe from mash dp.
To make your statement more accurate, you just need to perfect Ibuki’s unblockables and then you’ll pwn all the flowchart shotos.
Haha yep, forgot the unblockable, but basically, all it takes to win against a flowchart is unblockables & safe jumps. Flowchart people have the very smart reflex of mashing reversal DPs each time they wake up, and most of them are not aware that Shoryuken doesn’t work (I remember playing against my uncle who is an old SF2X player, and now he is basically a shoryuken spammer, and was like “WTF you can stuff my shoryus???” haha)
Well, what IS the next level? I’ve played pretty much predominantly online, and every time I go the Arcades I’ve vastly improved. With Ibuki specifically, I can’t do st.HK launchers very consistently at all, but when I got tot he Arcades every now and then, I hit them 99% of the time.
It depends on your character I think. If you play well online, you have to have great reactions. If anything, training online is the best way, because you play against all different kinds of playstyles and not just the same people over and over again.
Hell, all of my C.Viper match-up knowledge came from playing USA players with lag, and I can hold up 1:1 fights with Windsor now. Playing LapChi’s uber laggy Blanka made it so that I really learnt the match-up.
Nah, online *requires *you to be at that next level. You have to be VERY good at adapting to win consistently online, and have a VERY patient play.
Anyway, where the hell are my Makoto matches?
Or you can just abuse online lag like everyone else and then have a good day.
I don’t think Ibuki can abuse online lag besides her TC10 being seemingly unpunishable.
As I previously said, online simply can not compare to offline. The point of online play is to play for fun, create a social net of friends, and find some good competition. But the key word is to play for FUN. Not to take it seriously. You can also work SOME match ups, but it only going to bring you so far. When you go to the quarter up at the arcade, that pretty much sets the tone. Your putting your own money up to play a videogame to beat someone. There is no controllers with 3p 3k buttons on it. You have random people watching you or trying to beat you. The atmosphear is very different.
I use to play in the mvc2/cvs2/3s days and the scene was very competitive. Pulling off a phat combo on someone in a match meant you trained at home or where ever and now your beating someone in front of people and making put up another 25 cents.
Tournaments online don’t meant shit, even if say your playing and the winner gets 1000 bucks. Your still at your house, in your comfort zone, getting a cup of OJ from mom and eating a bowl of captain crunch. Going to an offline tournament for the same amount requires you to leave your house and go to a venue. You will be right beside another person who paid to get in that tournament and they want to win as bad as you do. They’ve been playing and practicing and sharpening there skills.
When speaking of next level it can’t be any more clear that playing a game like street fighter at home, online for free can have any comparison to playing offline at a venue with 100’s of people. Getting to that next level isn’t over coming bad connections or laggy matches. If anything thats just adding a barrier that only exist online (or on shitty monitors). Getting to that next level is pulling off Ibuki’s Back+MP dash s.HK c.HP j.HK on the fly when people jump in on you. Or lets say winning a tournament. Going to a new city where they have their own “best players” and your roflolstomping the shit out of them. Or grabbing a character like seth going to evo and perfecting daigos ass on stage on the stream infront of the entire fighting game community. Getting capcom to sponsor your ass and send you all over the world to beat some more ass.
My point is. Getting to that next level, is winning against “top players” in highly competitive atmospheres, where you can feel peoples eyes on you and pressure on your back to win that next match and get into top 8, then get into 5th, 3rd 2nd 1st. Hope that clears this all up!
Every match in isolation. If you don’t take online seriously, then that’s why you won’t be getting good knowledge from it. Having 3K or 3P, or even being able to plink, doesn’t matter. I don’t use these at home 'cause the Arcades is my main thing.
I don’t know if you have Arcades where you’re at but:
This happens to me everytime. If you’re beating people with a high win-streak (mine was ~50 here), people won’t play you. They will just watch you beat Seth and your credit runs out.
Ryan Hart says that this happens in Japan too. Besides, playing for PP is more important than playing for a credit to stay on. I could either lose 120PP, or lose £1. The Arcades will close before I’m out of pocket change haha.
Maybe it’s because I grew up with Arcades but, I’m a lot more comfortable playing with the new friends I meet then in my house surrounded by Science books, telling me to get off. Anyway, the Arcades is full of counter-picking.
What you’re talking about is when the Arcades are crowded and it takes a long time to play again if you lose right? This gives you time to reflect on your match, but you’re getting less practice.
… Combos aren’t what fighting games are about, but this has nothing to do with playing online lol.
Hold on a second, unless this is a Major, which happens once in every full moon, you can’t use that for training. You can’t just train at tournaments, the only thing you learn at them is the ability to deal with pressure. That’s the sort of thing you only have to do once. If we’re not talking about Majors, then who cares about such a small sum. You could easily make much more doing something other than playing Fighting Games. No one here plays them for money, they’d all be broke if they did.
I guarantee that if Umehara had played Poongko’s Seth online before the event, he wouldn’t have lost like that. He needed a bit of match-up knowledge before he was able to destroy him at GodsGarden events.
If you learn how to anti-air online, you actually need sharper reactions than you do offline. You have input lag (unlike GGPO), so you must react to a jump earlier… Since when have CAPCOM sponsored any players?
Fair enough, but you’re talking about pressure. Also, you haven’t really done this yourself, and Latif has. He stated that playing online is all the practice he really needed. Poongko does most of his practice online too, since Korea has a smaller community than he would need to place as high as he does.
Anyway, moving on from SF. With Fencing tournaments I won the first one I attended. Everything before was practice. And while there isn’t lag when practicing at home, I learnt my techniques without an Uke. If it’s possible to do this in real life, it has to be possible in a video game.
Treated. “going to be a quick a game then I gotta get home for lunch”
I’m actually on Izuna’s side for this matter. I think you guys (and especially Mingo) really underestimate what online playing can teach you
1 - playing in ranked mode will teach you to react and adapt fast, and also take every opponent seriously. I had a lot of trouble hen I was seeing a 500 PP Ken, thinking “meh, another flowchart ken”, and getting ass kicked because I was underestimating him. Moreover, you will play against ALL KIND of players, from flowcharts to top ranked players. I personnally have this huge flaw which is to play very well against very good player, and to play like shiet when I’m facing a shitty player. This is teaching me how to adapt my game to people’s gameplan
2 - go to forums, meet gdlk people (who said Izuna? lol), play them on infinite. Lag or no lag, you’ll learn a lot. And people will be more motivated to play. Like Izuna said, when you kick too much asses at a local arcade, nobody will play you, cause they don’t want to spend money to get directly raped.
I even think in countries which are not Japan, in which there is no arcade center with 30 SF4 and Daigo & Mago wandering around, online is a compulsory step (and I just decided not to buy KOF XIII because online sucks, and I don’t see myself investing all my money to get kicked at an arcade center and learn more).
BUT, you cannot play only online for sure. The main reason is that, the only people who’ll be motivated to play offline with you will be good players => you’ll be pretty sure that you’ll learn a lot (and not have to adapt to these flowchart people). Learn online, apply offline, this is how I could sum it up. This is also the reason why, in France’s case, all the best players are located in Paris. Because Paris is one of the last French cities with actual arcade centers. I used to live in Nice, no arcade center, I knew only 2 good players I met on forums there, so offline sessions was very rare, since I moved to Paris, my level incredibly increased.
Yeah you can’t ONLY play online, because you need to deal with pressure. That’s it. Apart from that, online makes offline easier, and you get more instantaneous practice.
Shiro_420 you sound like you’ve been to MANY tournaments over time, especially with you being what 10 years older than I am, and that I’ve only playing this game for a year. I’ve only been to two tournaments. The first time, I couldn’t hit TC4 properly, and the second time I was doing Tsumuji Loops and Kazegiri FADC st.Roundhouse CD mix-ups on Ryan Hart (who I look up to). We should play SF2 on GGPO (lagless to Canada) or something, a game I’ve played for less than a few months. If you body me due to your “offline experiences” then I’ll agree with you.
Saying that online is useless is a waste. Playing the same 5-10 people at a small community won’t level you up because you’re not experiencing new playstyles (like Damascus mentioned). Plus, if you have a small community, they will only try to get as good to be the best within that small community. With online you’re against the whole world.
The proof is in the pudding mate. Just because you’ve played top players doesn’t make you good. You need to challenge yourself systematically and improve on the little things. Only practicing combos at home and attending tournaments is stupid. You need to learn HOW to start those combos, and if you play a new player for the first time, you need to learn how to adapt otherwise you won’t do well.
We all play this game for fun. You seem to think that playing at tournaments isn’t “fun”. Seeing them as being different is why online isn’t good practice for you. You’ve done that to yourself.
QFT.
If you play online, you don’t see your opponent. You have to adapt during the match, rather than just going… “Oh, it’s Ryan, he plays this style.” When you go to another country you’ll be playing people you don’t know. You NEED to have experience with playing against the unknown. I’m sorry but unless you’re traveling all over the world during tournament season, online is the best way to do this.
Lmfao, I have nothing to really prove to you, I mean your honestly asking me to play you on ggpo in ST and beat you to prove that playing offline is better than playing online… That proves nothing at all. If anything it’s just me fighting you. why not instead play Justin, who has said many times that he does not play online.
Your also missing/twisting my point. Online play is fine for casual play, can you get better? Sure, but over coming lag/input delay/ghosting does not make you a better player… I mean that shit is literately ONLY online. Like playing someone from Japan with my canadian connection doesn’t help me what so ever. Playing online CAN help in match ups, but I really don’t see how only ever playing online will help.
I do play online, but there are pros and cons to playing online.
I don’t see what fencing has to do with anything… if you have lag at home in real life… nvm… I’d like to see proof of that tournament victory and one over Ryan heart. I mean that’s like me saying I’ve beaten Daigo a game in HDR… wait… [media=youtube]bc2jeqN1aSg[/media]
Ps I actually SUCK at that game
or beat Bas (one of the best players to ever play xvsf to DATE) in xvsf waaaait [media=youtube]n0mNxy5h3tY[/media]
anyways I was simply making a point that, online can not ever be a replacement for the offline aspect of the game, I in no way think that practicing combos at home makes can win you a tournament, rather local gathering in your city (if they do not have a vibrant arcade).
Playing online can help with match ups, but i dont think winning online is taking it to “that next level”
I’m not asking you to prove yourself as a player, I was giving you a chance to prove your point. Instead, you’ve just proven mine. You’ve played Umehara and you still SUCK at ST. Your words dude.
Who ever said about only playing online? I said you were underestimating online. Back in the early MvC2 days, Justin learnt a lot from playing against the CPU, which is what he said himself.
XvSF is one of most broken games ever, but I’ll talk about HDR. Do you not care that Umehara switched to Ryu after losing, and proceeding to win much easier? Pretty much everyone who has Money Matched Umehara has won a game off him, and it’s usually one of the first ones. This is a known fact, and it’s due to him not used to your playstyle. He was able to adapt quickly, and you weren’t, which is why he was the better player.
How could he have trained beforehand to fight you specifically if he has never met you? Well if he came across Shiro_420 online prior to that match, he would have been ready. How is that so hard to understand?
Consistent input delay, in terms of anti-airs, requires you to react quicker. There’s just no arguing with that.
I’m surprised you’re talking about winning individual matches.
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Anyway, you’re talking getting better. Placing Top 8 in tournaments etc. is nice, but that’s a silly way to look at improvement. Placing higher in a tournament is relative to everyone else playing. Self-improvement is completely different. Everyone in one scene can improve, but with the results being exactly the same. In tournaments, which is best of three, anything can happen. You can’t judge a players skill by individual matches they’ve won, or how high they place in tournaments. You do this by looking at consistency. Fuudo isn’t a better player than Umehara, but he placed higher than him in each tournament (I’m guessing SBO as well). Umehara is the best, because who else can play a 50-man Kumite with all the best losing only once?
My reason for continuing this debate is because you’re trying to discourage people from playing online, and just to turn to playing local, but there are so many more things to consider. I can have a get together of 20+ players, and only play them. However, not only will I be able to train against every character, but who says they’re better players than what you can find online? Back when Super Street Fighter IV was out (not Arcade Edition), all of the Japanese players had to play online: ONLY. Umehara didn’t play much local, but he took EVO. Going by your logic this should be impossible, what with so many new additions made to Super from Vanilla.
I’m not saying don’t play local, or at the Arcades if you can, but I’m very much against the idea that you shouldn’t be treating online as a place for true practice. There are many examples of people who play online very frequently and make it to do “Next Level”.
Your first example was RedCaliburn. The thing is, all she was doing was getting as good as she was online. She would get much better online, and then try to be as good offline due to the pressure. If she started with the pressure first, she would have learnt nothing until she had overcome that.
Anyway I didn’t say there was a video of me beating Ryan Hart (not more than a single game; and unlike you, I don’t get someone to record every match I have with top players just in case I win a game then upload it). The fact is that you were talking about execution. I didn’t need to play offline to get good execution, no one does. Not that I agree at all that execution is what these games are about, but if you say so.