Ibuki Critique Thread ver.2

Sponsored now, I see? Does MMS only sponsor online players or something?

Not much to critique here because you convincingly won each of these matches. It didn’t look like any of them knew the Ibuki matchup at all, and you got away with a lot of stuff. All I can say is don’t drop combos? Or maybe don’t play online and see how you fare against your offline scene (if any).

I should also mention that Oni’s f+HP is U2 punishable on block.

I do play offline, I went to ceo orlando that just passed where players like uyg knuckle du, cjtbiggame20, tampa bison, cjtruth, and flash metroid attended. what the hell? Is it convincingly, or is it I got away with stuff? I didn’t know I could punish that punch though so thanks for that. Care to clarify a bit where I got away with what in what match? Thanks, and I’ll try my best not to drop em.

On a side note - Ibukis struggling with deejay match, I’d like to point out that you don’t have to take lk. sobat pressure because its fake pressure. You can punish with stand Mk into whatever knockdown or even ultra if your ready for that punish.

My apologies. I’m not trying to insult you. I was just curious because the only other MMS person I’ve heard of is Smug, who also plays online a lot.

I don’t know who any of those players are except CJTruth and Flash.

Both. The DeeJay match is a good example. If he ever sees you jump, there’s pretty much no reason not to do Upkicks unless he either has no charge or he is expecting a 1f perfect safe jump. Almost every time you jumped at him (except at the beginning when he threw a fireball) he had charge, and two times he let you kunai vortex him on wakeup.

The Rufus match especially made me question the critique-ability of these matches. You basically got away with 5 jumps in the first round alone, along with several dropped combos and mashed reversals from both players.

Small pet peeve but also if you’re going for a max damage post-stun combo, start it with j.HP, not FA3.

Yes, LK Sobat is -5 on block. But what makes DeeJay not a free matchup are his auto anti vortex, and his midrange control (normals, fireball, spaced LK Sobat).
And somewhat his mini vortex game (not that good, but still better than nothing).

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I admit I’m not that good with her yet (not punishing a focus whiff or having a brainfart after landing a level 3 FA). Just made the switch from Vega about a week ago, I’d say, so I’m still pretty slow with reacting to punish. I’m also trying to raise my fundamentals with this character before I start learning the crazier mixup side with her. I’m looking to hit training mode with her for a couple hours a day, and once I feel more comfortable with it, I’m looking forward to taking her to Big Two. My Vega’s still loads better, but I feel like I can get much farther with Ibuki after more time with her. Here’s hoping for a successful future with Ibuki soon! Not a lot to critique, but I figure I’d post it as one of my first sets using Ibuki so there’s something to compare with for future vids I may post.

What do you think about this matchup? I would say it is pretty balanced.
I do play this “BeastChan23” guy a lot, I have him on my XBL friendlist, he’s pretty good, although he has this bad autopilot habit to jump-knee a lot (which is a free b.MP to antiair combo) ^^

Side, unrelated note: is “MMS” just a team composed of a few friends playing together, or is it more of a sponsor for tournaments? I often play with MMS SMUG, MMS Klitschko and MMS NATIVE (and the three of them are really good - shoutouts to Native lol)

Rizhall: I’ll watch your video as soon as I get home (I can’t at my workplace :slight_smile: ). And if you happen to go to Big Two, we’ll probably meet there =)

Idk there’s a few good safe jumps that Ibuki has on deejay. The neckbreaker step back sj. Mk crossup forces deejay to block crossup because he can’t get an autocorrect upkick, and even if delayed he will launch up the opposite side leaving him vulnerable to neckbreaker os.(back dashing out gets punished as well.) The bad thing about osing in that setup is that if he does it ex. UK you will nb away, losing the opportunity to punish. My other favorite and already well known is neck breaker > b.Mp jump fierce. I think those 2 setups alone will condition any deejay to at least acknowledge your neck breaker game but more importantly fear escaping the vortex that so many have escaped with just Lk upkick. Kunai is dangerous in this match as mingo has pointed out and now that I have noticed it the last 2 matches of my upload were pretty much me raping for them not dealing with the odd things I did to get the momentum. I’m learning to stop that. :stuck_out_tongue: My plan will be eventually to post concept matches on each ibuki match up in detail once I have gathered enough info. I don’t really have that much more to add to the deejay match because they also abuse the silly looking j.lk all day and slide shit that I just focus punish once I get how they panic with it. I don’t get deejay players sometimes… lol

Dunno why people insist on posting wins and then asking for critique… but anyways I don’t see very much structure in your game, if at all. You kind of just push buttons randomly, all the time. Whether you get in or whether you’re at midrange makes little difference apparently. At this point it doesn’t seem like there’s any thought processes like “footsies mode” or “frame trap mode”.

I’m not sure what the best way is to build structure into your game. Maybe find a super solid player like Gief/Fei/Ryu and play them in lengthy sets? That’ll be sure to teach you press random buttons and hope they hit.

Finding good option select setups on DeeJay sounds like a good idea, since for a long time every Ibuki has agreed he’s unvortexable due to his LK upkicks recovery. But if I’m not mistaken, wouldn’t sj.MK crossup setups like that simply whiff if he crouches?

It is a bad replay for criticism, isn’t it haha. Apologies~
My buttons are actually seldom random though. It does look random, but I almost always have a reason or purpose (or at least an idea) behind what I press usually (sans input errors). I’m a newb with Ibuki tho, so I could simply be pressing bad buttons for what I want to do, which would make it look like I’m pressing whatever, I suppose. What would actually help a LOT is if I told you why I pressed ___ or did ___, and someone can point out better things to do at those instances? I can edit it into the video as annotations, which would make it easier to read. If you’d be willing to do that for me, then I’ll definitely go through the time to put in those annotations so I can get better help.

If I had a cap card, I’d demonstrate it myself. If you manipulate the jump in spacing correctly there is that frame that is kinda like force stand after any knockdown(In this scenario it’s the neck breaker obviously.) so there are frames that we cannot skip, from being knocked down > standing back up > then the frames in between to reach crouch is what gets punished if they were to just hold down. The super jump clears right past his head leaving her safe from ex moves because the perfect jump doesn’t let them auto correct and so their reversal attempts fly the other way getting hit by os. All versions of sobat get hit by nb os. Lk upkick whiffs but os catches up, Mk upkick as well, roundhouse version gets stuffed by the sj. Mk, raw back dash gets caught by os, and finally fadc back or forward dash gets destroyed. But the timing is a bitch because it HAS to be perfect jump in first of all and the os neckbreaker can turn into raida sometimes letting deejay get away… again.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching a vega player play ibuki, very insightful.

Using back mk to demonstrate space control isn’t a bad idea but there is no method of capitalizing off it so there isn’t much purpose to it. It’s got a 10 frame start up (event hubs is wrong) so I wouldn’t bother using it too much to be honest and the target combo it goes into, while rarely seen is easy to react to. If you can work it into your game good on you but theres much more risk involved than potential gain. If you insist on using it i’d limit it to once a match or once a round just to remind your opponent that that is your space.

You have excellent spacing from what I saw. Either that or you’re absolutely fearless, I’d love to see some footage of your vega.

At around 0:51 you used df. mk (slide) to poke I assume you meant to use cr.mk instead, if you did mean to slide it is hugely negative from that distance.

You should be option selecting off your thrown normals, ie at the beginning you should OS neckbreaker, etc. I feel like a lot of your hits could have gotten mashed through but its hard to tell what I would have expected someone else to do at that level of play.

If I were you I would get used to the idea of throwing pokes for the purpose of hit confirm, while it worked very well in this match I would like to see how you do against other players. Please post more footage when you can, your style is very interesting, I’d like to see how it develops.

Show us some higher level play and we can definitely help you more. Ideally a clip of you losing (NOT to mixups but to your own errors).

Just saw these matches and there are a couple of things here concerning me. I can see you have already developed your technique against shotos because it’s pretty much rinse and repeat bs for all of them lol. I kinda expected some of the corner unblockables that YOU have posted on your channel but the fights were dragged on mostly in the center of the stage where the vortex kept on looping. I liked how the cr. mk was being used in order to lower hit-box but there was literally a brain dead part that just wowed me. It was literally like 3 cr. mk and then a slide that was still at unsafe distance none the less. This Akuma did a terrible job at punishers because I woulda already been in dat ass. Other than the overly aggressive sazans the rest is pretty much standard buffers and BnBs to vortex. I think you need a stronger opponent for a fair critique.

Just put them into text somewhere. I don’t want to have to watch the video on youtube else I lose my rewind button.

Re-watching that match, I see what you mean. Half those slides I’m not even sure why I did lol, and then some of the slides I can see why I did them but slight unfortunates (eg: Akuma slightly walk back) made them really punishable.

I just knew that cr.MK was a good button and not much Akuma can do about it besides sweep, and I wasn’t really afraid of his sweep.

I might have posted those corner unblockalols, but it doesn’t mean I took the time to practice them or grind them into memory. I think I attempted one but he simply teleported out.

Agreed, if I find a better Akuma and manage to record some matches, I’ll be sure to post them.

Thanks. Yeah, the more I play using Ibuki, the more I notice a few things. Using back+MK often just leads back to a neutral game, which isn’t something I necessarily want with this character, though it does give me some breathing room when I need it (Like vs his Guy, which is his main. Wish I could get those replays, but we played so many matches, those replays were gone already). I’m starting to think f.LK is better for that space control because it’s faster, gives more time to press the advantage, and also, that spacing is just a better overall spot for my Ibuki, it feels like.

The slide, as well, is starting to show a few shortcomings as well. If it’s not perfectly spaced, it often just leads to THEIR advantage, basically letting them have the mixup. They can easily mess up your spacing by walking forward and blocking, so it’s something I’m gonna have to rethink a bit. It seems like a bit of a godsend against Adon though, along with cr.MK, both making his moves whiff left and right haha.

Thanks for the words. I’ll definitely work on what you mentioned. When you said get used to throwing pokes out for the purpose of hit confirming, do you mean like more pokes that, if land, I can link into further damage, like cr.LP?

Mingo, I’ll do that when I get back from my interview later today.

I mean throw pokes that lead into setups, hard knockdown etc. So:
f.lk replaces b.mk for the most part, buffer LK tsumuji off it (on wiff or hit)
cr.mp gets neckbreaker buffered into it at wiff range and mk tsumuji at hit range
using mk as a poke isn’t a great idea because its easily wiff punished, i’d instead use stand jab into mk, cancel the mk into what you feel is appropriate. The one time I think mk is okay is using it instead of cr mp for the frame advantage it has (5 vs 8 frames) and canceling it into lk dash to get in. It leaves you negative but not hugely so and most have trouble reacting to it. It doesn’t fly in offline play too much but once they’re scared to hit buttons they aren’t really looking for it.

your bnb should be cr. lp cr. lp (os sweep) st. mk xx special (neckbreaker). far hit confirm is cr mp like i said earlier into mk tsumuji, do low ender if they get hit, otherwise stop and you’ll be at neutral advantage.

I noticed you didn’t use f.mk so much. Check out the range on it and it is excellent because her overhead leaves her positive on hit or wiff and its comboable. Downside of course is it is slow but eh, in exchange for killing down charge and making lows wiff it has its uses. If you’re going to use it for footsies you should get used to comboing it into mk but if you played vega that link isn’t any harder than the cr. lp cr. lp cr. mp xx air scream thing he does.

On the same note f.HK has a similar property in that it makes lows wiff but it is only comboable on counter hit and -3 on block. I don’t personally use it except in a few select match ups but maybe you can find some use for it. Sako uses it a bunch. You seem to be a fan of max range pokes so I’m sure you’ll find some utility for it.

Good luck, I look forward to your replays.

Actually now that I think about it, a solid player to play isn’t what you need, but instead a flowchart player, or someone who isn’t afraid to mash dp/spd.

A solid player would just simply block everything and leave you wondering why you aren’t hitting them.
A flowchart player will punish your random button pressing, which will hopefully, quickly deter you from pushing random buttons.

Such flowcharts can often be found online. Look for those who mash jab dp especially. But spd mashers can be just as good.

That won’t help. Part of why I am able to walk in like that is because I do bait and punish a lot, and he knows that since he and I play all the time, so he tends to not press a lot or mash against me. I fight Sanford and JR Rodriguez often, they both like to reversal through loose strings/after a jumpin, so I know how to fight that. The problem isn’t my playstyle, since my style changes depending on the style of my opponent, it’s my unfamiliarity with the character. When I hit a snag, or a really convincing loss, I’ll be sure to record and bring it here. Probably if I can get another set with Mr Wizard’s Rufus, this time with Ibuki, I’ll be sure to bring it here and ask for tips, that dude gives me trouble. Appreciate the help.

With your matches, you played pretty well, but I noticed it’s very methodical. At a very specific range, I notice that you’d always slide. And at another specific range, you’ll start fishing for either to absorb fireballs, in which case you either started backing up when he would simply close the distance (not that it mattered since he would immediately back away for some reason) or he’d walk into that range where you would then slide. I can’t help but feel a better player could take advantage of these habits, but it could just be that you kept doing it because HE didn’t do anything about it. He was pretty bad lol.

Another thing I noticed is that, when you start absorbing fireballs, and you pick up a decent chunk of grey health, he, like most amateur player, tries to ‘get’ you with a ‘surprise’ fast attack, which was usually a demon flip in his case. I think once you avoided it, but backed yourself up to the corner (shame on him for not pressing it), and each other time, you’d let him get the advantage with it, either getting hit by one of the attacks from the flip, or blocking, letting him get the advantage/mixup. Maybe see if you can find ways to deal with that kinda thing when you start to build up on the gray health, or at least a way to avoid it without backing up too much. That’s my 2 cents, hope it helps.

Ahhhh I see what you mean! I tried my hand at OS buffering just now to see, and it really does make a huge difference. Coming from Vega, that’s something that never really did, since a whiffed limb would then lead into a jump if I tried to buffer EX FBA. That helped me a load, thanks a lot!

I actually like f.MK a lot, I think it’s my favorite move in the game haha. I like it much more as an answer to lows and throws than I do as an overhead, I didn’t actually know it could confirm all the way into s.MK. I’ll def give it a try more often, it almost feels like Vega’s Cosmic Heel, but more advantage and becomes airborne MUCH quicker.

f.HK is a move I really want to play around with, but yeah, it’ll be hard to use against shotos or gief, being -3 and all. I’ll try it out in fights though, and hopefully I’ll find a place for it.

I really appreciate the help, synapse! Your tips are helping me a lot. =)

BTW, using tsumuji as a ghetto rekka, yay or nay? I made someone block a couple of LK tsumujis, noticed he’d try to counterpoke after blocking every time, so I did mk tsumuji, and delayed the third hit, landed as a counterhit (which should lead to +3), trying to counterhit with jab would be risky since blocked tsumuji mk is 0. Doing the followup is a blockstring, but you can delay it a couple frames or so to make it a rekka-style frame trap. going off on a tangent

Idk I disagree. If you want to get better you need stronger players. You would have definitely been more keen on not sliding if he was just sweeping or jab hit confirming into fierce or dp or anything but he didn’t and so you never re adjusted because it was never a threat to you as you mentioned. I will however agree that flowcharts are the best in training for punishes but where is the fun in that? You Perfected him in the matches where vortex was impeccable. I think the only thing you need to keep this match up under wraps for eternity is just that corner unblockable os with command dash and either the ex or regular neck breaker unblockable on teleports and learning to react to which direction hes going and punishing. Ibuki can always win this.

Yeah, I use that quite a bit. Make the 3rd hit a low instead so you get your knockdown; it is naturally a few frames slower than the mid hit ender so if they’re hitting buttons it makes for a natural frame trap. You can also use tsumuji as a poke (sparingly) to neutralize a few tools some of the better footsie characters have, particularly effective in the rose match up.

I’ll take your word for it then.

I definitely do play very methodical, or rather, flowcharty. I guess I do need to play better Akumas to get it exposed.

My philosophy about FA backdash vs shoto fireballs, is that first, I am in no rush to get in. Second, building ultra asap is very important to me, as it shuts down a lot of shoto options. Third, I’m not really afraid of the corner as I would be against other characters. Especially since if I get a knockdown when I’m in the corner, then they’ll be in the corner. Lastly, the typical shoto plays this matchup in a turtley way (because one knockdown vs Ibuki could easily spell death), and what better way to open them up than by making them come to you?

Tsumuji has lots of uses, and using it as a sort of rekka is one of them. If you notice your opponent pushing buttons after blocking a Tsumuji, the near guaranteed way of punishing this is delaying the sweep ender. It’s not too safe with HK Tsumuji low ender (-9) but the MK Tsumuji low ender is pretty good (-2).

Another thing to take into account is Tsumuji spacing; I feel this is the most important aspect of using Tsumujis. Blocked LK Tsumuji puts you outside of st.MK/cr.MP range, such that you can whiff either of those and buffer a Neckbreaker, which will generally whiff punish whatever your opponent does. Blocked MK Tsumuji puts you within st.MK/cr.MP range to continue your strings. And finally HK Tsumuji puts you the closest, within step forward , kara throw range (an excellent way to make your opponents afraid of what comes after Tsumujis).

I was talking to Rizhall, but thanks for the tips.