I don’t think it’s a glitch, but my best explanation is that Sagat is also a giant projectile (lol?).
I think its a glitch, Ibuki isn’t going trough because Ultra 2 is projectile invincible. She goes trough because its a hurtbox issue. Ibuki can dash trough him, as in, not the command dash. Makoto can do it too, its just a little harder to set up.
I also posted this in the wrong forum, its more of a Sagat glitch than it is an Ibuki glitch. I guess just use this as a reference as to never punish it with a straight up Ultra 2 from the back. Just dash trough and taunt. lol.
Hey guys, I think I may have found something. After watching the whole new Ultra Option Select Video
[media=youtube]uhRApiuecho[/media]
I started to screw around in training mode and I set Ryu to do crouch tech and I would try to hit him with Forward HK on counter hit. I got the counter-hit and I then canceled into Ultra 2 and it hit!
Wouldn’t Ibuki be airborne reset…?
I don’t know, I’m trying to replicate it but I am having a hard time.
Really really late, of course,
but it’s not unplinkable, you can plink it with MP or HP. I’m not sure why it has priority over them but it does.
Second, I think that this is most useful in corner comboes when you can go into EX-Tsumuji and Raida. Damage’s kind of meh with no knockdown otherwise(unless you get a full Kazekiri).
Excellent observation :tup:
I don’t know why we didn’t think of this before, but I’m pretty sure it has priority because f+LK is a command normal whereas st.MP and st.HP are not.
By the way, is the OP updated? I think having the maximum ground punish combo + overhead combo(against crouching) for every single character would be useful because Ibuki has so much character specific stuff. Also, 99% of the comboes in the OP are obsolete and frankly suck.
I can create a new OP if that’d be cool, because I don’t want this all being buried here.
If my comboes aren’t the most damaging (I prioritize damage over stun) please let me know. If a combo deals almost as much damage but deals significantly higher stun, let me know as well. The best jumpin combo also tends to just have the best punish combo after the jumpin.
Note I don’t use the MK Tsumuji loop here because I think that hard knockdown comboes are more valuable. For some characters the tradeoff in damage might even be significant enough to warrant using that but I haven’t experimented with it enough.
A few examples:
Blanka:
Maximum punish:
cr.HP -> MP Kunai -> Target Combo 4 -> s.LP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 333 damage / 531 stun.
Note you seem to have enough frames to hit s.MP after Kunai but I didn’t get it to combo even once after 3 hours, whereas I can hit the target combo without even blinking the LP.
Maximum damage off overhead:
f.MK -> s.MP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 290 damage / 420 stun.
Juri:
Maximum punish:
cr.HP -> HP Kunai -> s.MP -> s.MP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 337 damage / 570 stun
Maximum damage off overhead:
f.MK -> s.MP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 290 damage / 420 stun.
Abel:
Maximum punish:
cr.HP -> MP Kunai -> s.MP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 390 damage / 614 stun
Maximum damage off overhead:
f.MK -> s.MP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 374 damage / 517 stun
Claw:
Maximum punish:
s.MP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 385 damage / 528 stun
Maximum damage off overhead:
f.MK -> Target Combo 4 -> s.LP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 365 damage / 451 stun
Ryu:
Maximum punish:
cr.HP -> MP Kunai -> s.MP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MP -> Neckbreaker. 372 damage / 601 stun
Maximum damage off overhead:
f.MK -> cr.LP -> s.MP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 277 damage / 420 stun
Dictator:
Maximum punish:
cr.HP -> LP Kunai -> s.MP -> s.MK -> LK Tsumuji -> s.LP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 372 damage / 601 stun
Maximum damage off overhead:
f.MK -> s.MP -> s.MK -> Neckbreaker. 290 damage / 420 stun.
As Dictator is generally accepted to be Ibukis worst matchup, I think it’s pretty funny that if you happen to neutral jump his Scissor kick you will actually be able to deal a 440 damage meterless combo against him.
Also, in the tier list thread someone says that Ibuki deals no damage to Blanka because none of her comboes work. I’m not sure about how true that is, how many characters have a 333 damage meterless combo off a blocked slide? Off a jumpin f.HP or something it even goes up to 406.
Those are some examples, it shows that your optimized punish combo is the same against very few members of the cast and especially choosing which Kunai to use is very character-specific.
OP hasn’t been updated since Super.
I agree. But I would also add overhead combo against standing, because the best time to use your overhead is when you expect your opponent to stand tech.
If you want to create a new combo thread, let me know and I’ll sticky it, and unsticky this one (but still keep it around for reference, of course).
MK Tsumuji loop is primarily used when you want to use MK Tsumuji as your hitconfirm, but want to get better damage/knockodwn than just MK Tsumuji low ender. Also you can almost guarantee a hard knockdown with EX Raida, or EX Tsumuji. Pretty situational though (and of course, character specific) so I don’t know if you want to add this in yet.
For the max punish vs Ryu, I believe you meant st.LP , st.MK after the Tsumuji, not st.MP.
Since you’re using cr.HP for pretty much all of your punish combos, I think we should first start with how much frame advantage we get for each character (ie: can we combo off the cr.HP xx kunai? If so, can we do cl.st.LP or st.MP?). Also note that this (as well as the kunai you must throw) depends on spacing (eg: is your opponent in the corner?).
Since you’re using Tsumuji loops and cr.HP xx kunai combos, which are generally difficult, I’d suggest making a short list of easy-mode combos for beginners to start with or advanced players to fall back on.
The chances of you neutral jumping his Scissors kick is pretty slim, especially since it recovers so fast. You’d have a much better chance of landing f+MK into a basic combo (since you wouldn’t know if you’re close enough to Tsumuji loop).
No good Blanka is going to misspace a slide so badly that you can get a cr.HP punish starter. Meanwhile you’re basically never ever going to land cr.HP on Blanka unless he’s stunned or unless you magically land a j.HP. Blanka is one of the characters who can simply crouch under cr.HP, so you can’t even use it as a frame trap (which is imo the primary method of landing cr.HP).
The primary method of getting damage on your opponent is after a vortex knockdown. You typically don’t get +9 or more on your kunai unless you did it early/landed early, and you’ll never get +9 on j.LK or j.MK. You might be able to get it off TC3. Even getting it off a late j.HP (in order to stay ambiguous) is hard enough.
So pretty much unless your opponent whiffs a dp, or unless your opponent cannot simply crouch under cr.HP, Ibuki’s max damage potential is off st.MP , st.MK Tsumuji loops (which is still very good for a meterless combo).
That list’s still pretty incomplete and theoretical indeed. I’d of course add other, more practical comboes.
Off a focus crumble or stun you can do it I guess, and of course I’d have to make specific examples for all moves and distances. Missed ultra as well, I guess. Also jumpin. Blankas shouldn’t space the slide that horribly but well… Not everyone’s perfect and if they do make a stupid mistake it’s good to make them suffer as much as possible for it. Not everyone plays against world class Blankas, after all, and online Blankas especially tend to slide stupidly like that all the time.
You can punish Scissor kicks if you jump at the same time that he starts it, this can happen surprisingly often if they’re being predictable with them. If he gets scared and won’t scissor kick as much then that gives you other openings, right? Still you only need to land a jumpin every 18 Scissor kicks you block or so to stay even.
The kunai imo isn’t that difficult, it still feels like a one-framer but you can plink it normally because for some reason it doesn’t seem to give EX anyway(and I’m pretty sure priority goes to Kunai so that you can plink with the kick buttons though I haven’t tried that). You can just buffer the diagonally up-forward after inputting cr.HP and then patiently wait for the timing for the Kunai. It still is a bit tricky for me but at least you don’t need to tiger knee or do anything crazy, it’s just timing.
Off an overhead on a standing opponent I think you can just treat it as a non-deep jumpin, so generally you either go for s.MP s.MP s.MK Neckbreaker or s.MP s.MK Tsumuji loop(twice if applicable) neckbreaker. I guess I could add these but it feels redundant and obvious. It also is pretty difficult to confirm an overhead on a standing opponent as quickly so I’m not sure if you’d even want to do a full combo like that because they can mash through it if they happen to block. Of course if they stand-grab it’s an obvious confirm before it even hits, just saying.
However it’d still be nice to know that you can punish, for example, Balrog’s LP Dash Punch that’s incorrectly spaced with s.LP s.MK SJC Ultra2 for a maximum of 423 damage as they seem to enjoy spamming that as if it’s safe. No need to confirm if you get the one-framer but I still have problems with SJCing s.MK so I haven’t really tried using that in practice.
Ideally I’d list every punish for every move at all ranges but that’s pretty ambitious. Likely I’d just have a beginner set of comboes(really short and easy) that aren’t too character specific and are more than enough for most levels of play, intermediate comboes that have some tougher links for more situations, and advanced comboes which would be everything else because Ibuki only has a few easy comboes(But seriously you can probably even be semi-pro with Ibuki even without knowing much more than a few BnBs as long as the rest of your game is solid)
How badly do the combos you posted degrade after some thing like a level 2 or 3 focus attack? Seeing as to how you start all of them with a c.HP. Can you space a c.HP from a blocked / whiffed dp?
Every character can punish Bison’s scissor kicks by jumping. And if in the corner, you should jump backwards for a better attack angle or if you can, an air target combo on the way down. The problem is that Bison can just use s.HK and smack you out of the air for a bajillion damage, that is, if he predicts you to jump. The reason its hard for Ibuki isn’t really the scissor kicks pressure, its his damn normals and his ability to easily escape the vortex.
For combos with ultras, well at least for your Balrog case, I’m not sure where you want to go with it, an actual max damage combo, or a realistic max combo damage. Normally I’d use Ultra 1 against Balrog since it can punish a blocked overhead. (I also like to use it on wake up and in the corner against them, works every time lol :P) What about frame trap combos? Resets? Character specific combos? What will you be aiming for?
And yes, you are right, you don’t really have to know hard combos to make a semi-pro Ibuki. What I would really like to know is how to get good ambiguous resets. Like EX tsumuji, DP, FADC, c.HP, kunai, in the corner. So far the only reset I like to use is Ibuki’s HK command dash. lol. I think it works very well if you can prove to your opponent you can do consistent, long combos. They never see it coming. The overhead is pretty good too, for me its the only thing that works since somehow people don’t fall for my frame traps or tick throws. How does that even happen? Usually I can only use it at max range where its only link-able by a s.MK. Will you add those combos too? MAX range combos? (May be useful after a blocked _________)
cr. hp has minimal usage outside of styling and max stun combos. perfect spacing for kunai follow up even on punish combos is hard and it varies for every punish and every character. it sounds nice in theory but it isn’t realistic. iirc kunai follow up is only 1-2 frame link on cody and dudley.
hi waffleslapper I see you on reddit a bunch.
This post needs a lot more attention than its getting.
Double Tsumuji loops degrade pretty badly but I think they still deal the most damage.
By the way, I feel like a fool for not testing this before. But like over 30+ times in a row after I did neckbreaker -> HJ Kunai, I get a cr.HP to combo after it. So you can do them all off a properly timed kunai.
You can also combo cr.HP after a Kunai after forward throw -> walk back a tiny bit -> full jump meaty kunai. I’m pretty sure it works off all Kunai setups as long as you time them properly(Which you always should anyway).
And indeed, the main merit of the cr.HP comboes is the massive stun it does.
If we compare something like the cr.HP -> Kunai -> s.MP -> s.MK -> Double Tsumuji loop -> Neckbreaker on Abel against just the s.MP -> s.MK -> Double Tsumuji loop -> Neckbreaker, it’s:
390 damage / 614 stun
vs
385 damage / 528 stun
So no significant difference damage-wise, but the stun is much higher. And in my opinion it’s very important to get your stun/damage ratio up as Ibuki because if you do stun them you get a full jumpin punish combo on them which IIRC is the second-most damaging in the game after Evil Ryu.
Oh and I’d have all possible comboes for every move and what to use against which expected action by the opponent, ideally. I guess I also could do resets and option selects and everything you can think of and what you can do with them against which opponents.
As an example, antiair s.HK(or b.MP and the correct dash depending on spacing) -> LK Command Dash -> s.HK -> LK Command Dash -> cr.HP -> HK Command dash -> meaty s.MP option select ultra 2 is a good option if you don’t think they’re going to reversal Shoryuken or something after your antiair combo.
As just a reset, s.MK -> LK Command dash can work. You’ll be -1 but chances are they won’t react in time to a throw or whatever you can think of. If they’re really close to a stun after, say, s.MP -> s.MK -> Tsumuji loop, you can cancel the final s.MK into a LK command dash and grab them, and if you do manage to throw them, it’ll be a 1-hit stun and you can follow up with a full fresh punish combo. This means that they will now die if you finish the combo due to how much health they must have lost to get stunned in the first place. If they SRK you need to block, if they tech you can f.HK or something. Even though you’re -1 the surprise effect will likely take care of that frame.
I wasn’t sure where to put this so I guess I’ll put it here.
I added Robofobe’s cr.HP xx kunai information ( http://robofobe.com/cr.hp_xx_jc_kunai/ ) to the Ibuki charts https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqClL3kJPchYdFlDd0VhMmt4R0w3TVdJQ2hHX29GLUE#gid=13
All credits go toward Robofobe.
That s.MP after the cr.HP xx Kunai is fucking hard to do. I’m gonna peg it as my not doing the kunai fast enough, since I can get a jab followup easily. How do you guys do the cr.HP xx Kunai? For me, it’s like, cr.HP, upforward, then I do the kunai motion when I confirm the cr.HP hitting. Is tk kunai something I should work on getting consistently or is that method fine?
I do that same motion, Upforward buffer, then kunai motion. The trick is not doing the motion when on the ground. You’ll just do a jumping punch attack. For MP kunais I Plink it. For some reason the EX kunai doesn’t come out. Not sure why it doesn’t, but as long as its Plinked, the EX kunai wont come out. Plinking any other occasion will result in a EX kunai. An instant kunai should look something like a instant neutral jump kunai, but then ibuki falls forward. I’ll usually get plenty of time to land a s.MP afterwords if it hits their toes.
Not sure about tiger knee kunais, I’ve never really tried using them or bothered practicing them.
Remember that cr.HP xx kunai combo is character specific. Try doing it against Ryu (or most shotos) and linking st.MP.
I do the same cr.HP , hold up forward during the hitstop , then input the kunai, but I usually plink the kunai with a kick button (kunai is a special, and therefore has priority over her jump attacks).
Does anyone have some Ultra 1 setups that work well?
There is no “ultra 1 setup”, except possible SJCs which work with U2 (but waaay less damaging), or punishes.
U1 is mostly used for punishing everything -1 or more, including:
- Balrog’s TAP
- Fei Long’s second EX Rekka
- Ken’s EX Tatsu
- Sagat’s EX Tiger Knee
- Abel’s EX roll
and counting.
Otherwise there is still the ultimate trolling tool: dash forward U1, or EX kazegiri blocked FADC U1, but it’s definitely unsafe/extremely punishable/a bluff/ a bet, only if you are feeling yourself lol. Just like Mingo 
Ken’s EX Tatsu is +1 on hit. I think you meant HK Tatsu?