oh thanks Mingo for posting this. i was looking for ibuki loops info.
good stuff. :tup:
addicted to loop12 been spending hours in training just grinding that loop on sagat. wow @ Abel. must be 7-3 matchup, every loop works on him into vortex.
lol 7-3
LOL 7-3!! It’s at MOST a 6-4, god you’re dumb. Right guys???
Added even more to the Ibuki charts:
crossup j.MK , TC4
crossup j.LK , TC4
j.MK does more damage/stun/meter, at the cost of being more character specific and spacing specific, should you decide to go for loops. j.LK does less damage/stun/meter, and you only have to worry about 3hit TC4 on two characters (Dan/Dudley), besides crouching characters of course. j.MK is also really damn hard to hit on certain characters (eg: DeeJay, El Fuerte) so make sure you have a setup prepared for it. j.LK is almost never a true blockstring, so keep that in mind.
Lastly, every time you cross up, no matter what button you press, you have to worry about spacing if you do spacing-reliant setups, whether it be a tsumuji loop, TC4 st.LP, or a kara throw setup, etc. j.LK is usually the way to go if you want to reduce the crossup “push back” but the spacing issue is still there.
Added more to the Ibuki charts. Turns out cr.HP actually hits a lot of characters, and there is a big difference between blocking and not blocking on certain characters.
Generally speaking, on most characters you can still be within range of the cr.HP after one blocked cr.LP or cr.LK. On a select few characters, you can do two cr.LP or cr.LK, and still be within range. After two though, no character will be within range.
To determine this, I think it’s safe to use the tsumuji loop as a guideline. Very loopable characters such as Abel/Sagat are large and you can do two lights and then cr.HP. On moderate sized characters, you can only do one. I’m not sure if it’s possible to be out of range of cr.HP after doing a light for any of the characters.
In terms of follow up, cr.HP forces stand, and is +2 on hit, +5 on counterhit. Besides the character, something you have to consider is spacing. If you do a light attack first, and then frame trap with cr.HP, you might not be close enough to do certain setups, such as tsumuji loop (tested working against Abel/Sagat).
It seems you can always link st.MK, but it’s a 1frame link. If you are confident in your execution, then just go for the st.MK. On certain characters, you can st.jab (3frame link). If you didn’t do a light attack first, you can link f+LK (2frame link) or cr.LK (2-3frame link), which may be helpful since cr.LK is plinkable.
I also tried linking LK and EX kazegiri, but for some reason I can’t get it consistently.
If your reactions are Sako-like, you could probably just SJC into something. cr.HP offers a lot of time to SJC anyways.
c.hp xx sjc xx tsumuji?? eh??
Just end the motion in up and it will combo
So I wanted to find out exactly how SJC U2 works (is the super jump cancelled or linked into ultra?) and the differences between TC4 SJC U2 difficulty vs something like cl.st.HK SJC.
Through the power of Fraps, quad core cpu and a ramdisk, I’ve discovered that
- st.HP part of TC4 is cancelled in ~2 frames (frame data agrees)
- there is about ~6 frames of following hitstun with the blue impact circle
- after that, there seems to be 1 frame of Ibuki’s super jump animation
- right after this 1 frame, Ibuki goes into ultra 2 animation
I’m guessing this means SJC U2 = SJC xx U2
This also confirms why may you get EX kazegiri instead of SJC U2: it’s because the KKK input is done before this super jump animation, hence simply cancelling into EX kazegiri instead of super jump.
I’m assuming Fraps didn’t drop any frames (I’m recording at 60fps) but I did test it several times.
edit: oops I had it on 30fps. I’ll retest again…
So upon retesting:
- st.HP part of TC4 is cancelled in exactly 2 frames startup (frame data agrees)
- there is exactly 10 frames of following hitstun/blockstun with the blue/red impact circle/sparks
- then Ibuki goes into her super jump animation, and here is where it varies. I’ve been able to get 1 frame of super jump animation, followed by start of ultra animation, and I’ve been able to get 3 frames of super jump animation, then the start of ultra animation.
So I’m fully convinced this means SJC U2 = SJC xx U2
Since jumps/superjumps start up in 4 frames, I’m guessing this makes it kind of like a 3 or 4 frame link.
edit2: might not be a 4f link; maybe 3f. If I just do TC4 xx SJ it looks like she leaves the ground on the 4th frame.
So after some more testing, it seems that jump cancels, like TC6, cl.st.HK and cr.HP happen within 2 frames, where as super jump cancels like off TC4 and st.MK happen within 4 frames.
Played around with cl.st.HK xx cd. So it seems that the amount of block/hit stun you get is important. There are two schools of thought when it comes to inputs:
- do it immediately after HK
- input it faster, but only after the second hit of HK
Something to note here that if you go with #1, you’ll get a JC, since for some reason it takes priority? If you go with #2, you’ll generally get a SJC. And since SJC offers twice as many cancellable frames, it seems to be the better option.
So yeah, take that all you noobs that insist on inputting the SJC input in the middle of the target combo. It only fosters bad habits, which will make other SJC’s harder.
Also, you’ll have to make use of all the hit/block stun frames you get. With cl.st.HK, it’s about 9. With cr.HP, it’s somewhere around like 16. cr.HK xx st.HK target combos is about 13.
The amount of frames you get doesn’t seem to have much correlation with recovery frame data.
Btw, the ~ is there to mean approximately. I could be one frame off or so. I kind of just tested really quickly. The methodology used is that I start counting from the very first frame of the last hit.
cl.st.HK: ~9
cr.HP: ~16
cr.HK xx st.HK: ~13
TC4 (st.HP): ~10
cr.MP: ~11
st.MK: ~11
cl.st.LP: ~9
cr.LP: ~9
cr.LK: ~9
cl.st.HP: ~11
f+LK: ~9
b+MP: ~11
I think that’s all of them.
Wow, your five page guide is amazing and helpful, Mingo!
Thanks for posting this!!
I dunno if anyone knows this, or if I’m supposed to post it here, but I learned a new cd mixup from a local Ibuki player! He’s in team madcatz so I know he’s legit lol.
FA lv3. > Dash > HK cd > b+mp xx LK cd > cl. s HK xx LK cd > cr. HP xx SJ…
Yes? The b+mp has to be done right after the cd so your opponent gets hit into the air for the juggle to start.
Welcome to week 1 Ibuki. I believe either Sako or Motempest (or both) have already invented that show-off mixup combo, a very very long time ago.
Oh lol. I haven’t seen it yet on the forums that’s why I posted it.
We nicknamed it the MoTempest. When AE hit the Arcades he ran a massive win-streak on everyone and we got to saw him destroy a Guile player by stunning him, doing that mix-up, straight into LK xx MK SJC Ultra 2.
So, I’ve started playing around with SJC FA. I’ve gotten a lot more consistent with it when I followed the conclusions from my previous testing.
- focus on the SJC timing, such that you only get SJC and not JC; it seems if you use JC timing, it’s almost impossible to do
-note that SJC timing is basically SJC as late as possible - immediately after SJC, do FA input
- obviously, only do down-up for SJC, otherwise you’ll either get a command dash or tsumuji due to priority
-note that doing more than down-up is fine if your inputs aren’t perfect, as long as there isn’t a full qcf/qcb in there
You get empty JC: try to aim for SJC timing, or input down-up as late as possible
You get JC + random kick: see above
You get empty SJC: your FA input was too fast
You get SJC + random kick: your FA input was too slow
You get SJC cd or tsumuji: watch your directional inputs; try not to input qcf or qcb
I haven’t fraps and watched frame by frame yet, but this is what it seems like for now.
So anyways, has anybody found a use for this yet? So far I’ve only found it useful when doing a launcher combo in the corner, and instead of command dash you use FA dash since
- forward dash is the fastest (18f vs 20/22/24f)
- there is very little “lag” at the end of forward dash animation, compared to command dash, making it harder to react to
It also seems useful to do a surprise FA in the middle of any SJC-able normal/combo/targetcombo especially without the use of meter.
I couldn’t really find a decent use for it besides the occasional reset after target combo/dash. I wonder if it’s worth learning.
I’m grinding Marvel training mode at the moment lol. Gonna see if I can make up for more than half a year in a couple of weeks and join the next local marvel tournament here lol.
Just wondering, does the meterless FADC work well with Ibuki? I know she has it, but C Viper definitely uses it TONS.
C.Viper uses it almost solely off Seismo/EX Seismo (which is probably the most broken EX move in the game imo). It puts your opponent into a juggle state so you can link sweep (I don’t believe Ibuki can do this, nor would she need to when she can just raida) or link U1 (Ibuki has no need for this since she can just SJC U2 anyways, albeit for a lot more scaling and lot less damage).
If Ibuki could SJC her specials, that would be gdlk. Blocked neckbreaker xx SJC out to keep it safe, let’s go.
Good Viper players SJC cancel normals into dash all the time, that shit is broken as well.
Are you having any luck canceling ST.MK meterless? If you say yes, I’ll probably attempt to learn this.
Why would they need to SJC normal into dash? Unless it’s like HP or something I guess.